this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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Government Of Canada Labels Palestine Solidarity Organization As A Terrorist Entity (thenorthstar.media)
submitted 1 month ago by NightOwl@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

First of all, do you know how much money Hamas has received in foreign aid to help the people of Gaza?

I'm going to ask you to cite your sources here.

Second, Israel built a thriving successful nation from nothing through hard work, innovation, and a shared commitment to building a future for the Jewish people.

Yes, it totally had nothing to do with the tens of billions it receives in foreign aid, the extensive military support it also gets, and the land and resources they stole from the Palestinians. A lot of "hard work"there. Clearly.

[–] DarthJon@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

https://apnews.com/article/business-middle-east-israel-foreign-aid-gaza-strip-611b2b90c3a211f21185d59f4fae6a90 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-plagued-poverty-hamas-no-shortage-cash-come-rcna121099 https://www.prio.org/publications/12927

Most of Israel's support from the US has come in the past several decades. Israel was founded in 1947, fought a war with virtually no support from anyone, and then spent about 20 years building up the country from nothing. It didn't develop major political alliances until after the Six-Day War in 1967, when countries like the US realized Israel could prove to be a mutually beneficial ally.

I know it's hard to admit that a few hundred thousand Jewish refugees could actually build a country through their own hard work, but that's what happened. There's a reason why the Jewish people have survived and thrived against all odds, and it ain't because of handouts.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The article you provided literally talks about how Qatar is sending foreign aid to Gaza and Israel is allowing it since it bypassed Hamas. This just invalidates your point.

It absolutely was not thanks to hard work. Israel is a colonial settlement backed by billionaires and propped up by the American military, so they can use it as a proxy to exert their influence on the region. Pull this support away, and the country collapses.

[–] DarthJon@lemmy.world -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Are you Muslim? You seem to be having a very difficult time with the idea of Jewish success.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Calling building a nation on the pile of millions of corpses of the native population and aided by the richest countries in the world a success is pretty disingenuous to put it politely. Israel's standing isn't the flex you think it is.

Israeli's are Zionist extremists. Many Jews around the world don't believe in this bullshit promised land the Zionists are using to commit unforgivable atrocities. I don't have a problem with Jews, I have a problem with Zionists.

[–] DarthJon@lemmy.world -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Jews are indigenous to the land. Do you know what's underneath the mosques in Israel? Jewish temples and artifacts dating back thousands of years.

And we didn't start any of the violence. None of it. Arabs rejected the presence of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East and have been trying (and failing) to destroy it for 100 years.

Once again, the Palestinian people have received billions in foreign aid. They are supported by Iran and Qatar, which are two pretty damn wealthy countries.

You clearly know nothing about Zionism. You are making generalizations about a movement and a people based on the behavior of a small number of extremists. Do you know what that's called? Bigotry.

And I hate to disappoint you, but anti-Zionist Jews are a very, very small fringe minority. So when you say, "I don't have a problem with Jews, I have a problem with Zionists," you're basically saying, "I don't have a problem with all Jews, just most of them."

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Jews are indigenous to the land. Do you know what’s underneath the mosques in Israel? Jewish temples and artifacts dating back thousands of years.

So are the Palestinians.

And we didn’t start any of the violence. None of it. Arabs rejected the presence of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East and have been trying (and failing) to destroy it for 100 years.

Yes you did.

Once again, the Palestinian people have received billions in foreign aid. They are supported by Iran and Qatar, which are two pretty damn wealthy countries.

And were being kept in the worlds largest open air prison. They were regularly killed and attacked by the Israeli's that makes the treatment of African-Americans by cops look like a joke.

You clearly know nothing about Zionism. You are making generalizations about a movement and a people based on the behavior of a small number of extremists. Do you know what that’s called? Bigotry.

This isn't some kind of fringe group. The whole country is based on this ideal and majority of the government follows it, including the higher ups.

And I hate to disappoint you, but anti-Zionist Jews are a very, very small fringe minority. So when you say, “I don’t have a problem with Jews, I have a problem with Zionists,” you’re basically saying, “I don’t have a problem with all Jews, just most of them.”

If they're Zionists, yes I have a problem with them.

[–] DarthJon@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So are the Palestinians.> I didn't say they weren't. That's the difference between the two sides in this conflict. The vast majority of Jews have always been willing to share the land with the Palestinian people, while the anti-Zionists refuse to accept that.

Yes you did.> Really? That's your counterargument, a Wiki reference to the Nakba? You really know nothing about the history, do you?

And were being kept in the worlds largest open air prison.> Blame Hamas. There was a time before Hamas took over Gaza that Israelis and Palestinians freely moved across the border. That changed when Hamas started turning Gaza into a terrorist base.

Listen, you clearly know nothing about Israel and Zionism. You're just blinded by hate and whatever crap you see on TikTok or you learn about from your keffiyeh-wearing college buddies.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The vast majority of Jews have always been willing to share the land with the Palestinian people

If that were the case then they wouldn't have forcibly removed the Palestinians from their own lands stripped them of their homes and livelihoods.

Really? That’s your counterargument, a Wiki reference to the Nakba? You really know nothing about the history, do you?

You're welcome to explain to me why I'm wrong.

Blame Hamas. There was a time before Hamas took over Gaza that Israelis and Palestinians freely moved across the border. That changed when Hamas started turning Gaza into a terrorist base.

And what led to the conditions of Hamas being formed? The Israeli government literally supported and propped up Hamas to de-legitimize the Palestinian population in the eyes of the international community.

Listen, you clearly know nothing about Israel and Zionism. You’re just blinded by hate and whatever crap you see on TikTok or you learn about from your keffiyeh-wearing college buddies.

I don't use Tiktok and my viewpoints are based on events that I see happening when I open news articles of the butchering of civilians day after day after day. I don't hate Israel because it's a Jewish state. I hate it because it's existence comes at the expense of others and they don't seem to even want to stop.

[–] DarthJon@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If that were the case then they wouldn’t have forcibly removed the Palestinians from their own lands stripped them of their homes and livelihoods.>

Are you referring to 1948, during the war started by the Arab League to destroy Israel? If the Arabs had accepted partition in 1937 or 1947, there wouldn't have been a war. There would be a Jewish and a Palestinian state coexisting to this day. Zionism is nothing more than the belief in Jewish self-determination in our ancestral homeland. That's it. It does not preclude anyone else's existence or self-determination. That's what defines Palestinian nationalism, not Zionism.

You’re welcome to explain to me why I’m wrong.>

As I said above, Israel didn't start the war that led to the Nakba. The Arab League of Nations did. They lost that war. Twenty years later Egypt declared war again and Israel launched a pre-emptive strike to end it quickly. Six years later Arab countries attacked again, this time on the holiest day in Judaism. Israel won that war too. And now we have the war of 2023-2024, whatever it will be called, which was once again started by Hamas's barbaric invasion and Hezbollah's sympathy attacks from the north. There is a clear pattern in this history, and I didn't even include the Arab violence against Jews that pre-dated 1947.

I hate it because it’s existence comes at the expense of others and they don’t seem to even want to stop.>

Except it doesn't. See my first response above. The Arabs/Palestinians have had many opportunities to pursue peaceful coexistence and have chosen violence every time. That is simply because they refuse to accept the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East. There was no Palestinian nationalist movement until Israel was created. It is literally defined by its opposition to Israel's existence.

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If the Arabs had accepted partition in 1937 or 1947, there wouldn’t have been a war.

That's a funny way of saying if people didn't accept foreigners displacing them there would be no war.

Zionism is nothing more than the belief in Jewish self-determination in our ancestral homeland.

At the expense of the native population. It's an imperialist attitude, that does not take into account the suffering it inflicts. It's the same thing that happened to the Native American's when Europeans came to settle on their land. You're casually dismissing the suffering, systemic oppression, and ethnic cleansing of people to justify some political or ideological goal whose basis in the Jewish faith is questionable at best.

As I said above, Israel didn’t start the war that led to the Nakba. The Arab League of Nations did. They lost that war.

As I said before. You're neglecting what led to this war being brought on. You can't displace a native population and then be surprised when they decide to fight back and then cry victim.

The Arabs/Palestinians have had many opportunities to pursue peaceful coexistence and have chosen violence every time.

Like when Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by Israelis for signing the Oslo accords?

Or when Israelis would establish illegal settlements like what Hilltop Youth did and attacked Palestinians on site?

Or the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre?

The oppression Israel had done on the Palestinians is well documented.

Here's another report.

That is simply because they refuse to accept the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

Why should they? It's their land Israel settled on.

There was no Palestinian nationalist movement until Israel was created.

So what does that tell you about what Israel is doing? Why would this movement be needed in the first place?

[–] DarthJon@lemmy.world -2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

There is literally nothing analogous about Israel and the colonization of the Americas, but for the sake of argument let me ask you this:

Do you think First Nations people (as we call them in Canada) would be justified in carrying out an endless campaign of terrorist violence against Canadian and American citizens in the futile hope that we would all decide to pack up and leave? If several hundred of them decided to maraud through towns in rural US or Canada, butchering entire families, burning people alive, sexually violating women, and then took a couple hundred people hostage, would your attitude be, "Meh, we did take their land."

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 2 points 4 weeks ago

The single fact that you were able to use it as an example means the 2 situations are analogous. Read some of the links I sent you in the other thread. You're sidestepping and dismissal of what's happening right in front of your eyes is getting pathetic.