this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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Pleasant Politics

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Vice President Kamala Harris pledged Monday to federally legalize cannabis, ensuring that "safe cultivation, distribution and possession of recreational marijuana is the law of the land."

Good stuff.

Harris' promise is part of a package of initiatives aimed at energizing Black male voters ahead of the November election.

What the shit?

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[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm not a fan of alcohol either, which is also why I commented on it. I'm even considering whether I should lay off of caffeine because of its effects as a stimulant as I grow older as a longterm user of it.

The problem I have with your logic is that it delves into the line of conspiracy. Sure, the private prison system is abusive, but if it were as bad as you say they would be arresting people from jaywalking. It's also generally illegalized outside of the US except for a few specific tourism hotspots, which even I would agree are not a risk factor.

Government are very aware of the effects of drugs and was even weaponized during the Opium Wars. They do generally have some interest in a stable society. Legalized marijuana may be viable, but my impression of it is that it's not without risks and it has certainly be politicized more than it should when what it really needs is an objective perspective that is difficult to attain.

[–] ProdigalFrog 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The problem I have with your logic is that it delves into the line of conspiracy.

Private prisons alone are a multi-billion a year industry, and as with any corporate community with vested interests, they lobby congress to sway them to their interests. If you consider that to be going too far into conspiracy, then I can only offer that this phenomena of a corporate plutocracy has been well studied by respected universities, and compiled into easily digestible books, examples such as:

Affluence and Influence, by Martin Gilens, professor of politics at Princeton University. Martin and a colleague, Benjamin Page, analyzed 1,779 policy outcomes over a period of more than 20 years. They concluded that “economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence.”

Who Rules America by G. Wlliam Domhoff, Distinguished Professor of Sociology at University of California, Santa Cruz. He explores the history of how a corporate plutocracy formed, how their social circles operate and reinforce their positions, and their financial incentives.

None of those people are on the fringe, they are operating purely on verified historical fact and solid scientific rigor.

if it were as bad as you say

There's more people in prisons doing so-cheap-it's-slavery labor now than there were actual slaves in the US before it was abolished.

317K people were arrested for Marijuana in the US in 2020, a low from 500k the previous year.

There are 1.2 Million people incarcerated in the US (40k of those for Marijuana alone), compared to 483K in all of the EU. This is despite the EU having more than double the US population.

they would be arresting people from jaywalking

Drug users were so heavily demonized over so many decades, that we don't really bat an eye if someone is imprisoned for drugs. Do you believe people would be passive if life sentences for jaywalking became a thing?

It’s also generally illegalized outside of the US except for a few specific tourism hotspots

Illegalized, but usually the penalty is only a small fine, not prison as a federal offense, and many of countries in the EU have decriminalized it for personal use, not just tourist hotspots.

Government are very aware of the effects of drugs and was even weaponized during the Opium Wars

my impression of it is that it’s not without risks

Marijuana is nowhere near as dangerous or addictive compared to any other commonly available recreational drug. Cigarettes, Opium, and alcohol, are far more addictive and damaging, all of which create a tremendous amount of societal costs, for families, medical facility overload, and societal.

I won't say people can't become dependent on weed, and kids should probably avoid it, but it inherently has no real withdrawal symptoms compared to any other substance, and is far easier to quit cold turkey than virtually any other drug with no physical harm.

The punishment for marijuana is completely disproportionate to the societal damage it is capable of causing, which in the worst case scenario, is minimal. To justify its criminalization by looking at the damages of opium use is bizarre when all of the above is taken into account. If we were to seriously consider that point of view deserve merit, then we must also seriously consider that unhealthy and addictive food should rightfully be criminalized as well. We have mountains of data and research showing how much societal harm they cause, and how addictive they can be, and in fact, are designed to be.

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The problem with your comment wasn't that private prisons are a problem, it's the conspiracy of implying they are wholly responsible for the drug war. The private prison system abuses an opportunity, but they are not the ones defining and creating those opportunities.

You are ignoring how international the criminalization of cannabis is by looking at facts through rose tinted glasses. Check the link to your map again, it is not "decriminalized" in many EU countries, at best it merely labels them as mixed and does so subjectively, since in many cases it admits it is illegal but applies a subjective criteria to determine what makes it mixed. It's also unclear why in Germany it opts to mark it as approved/decriminalized because medical marijuana is allowed, when many of the mixed labels are the same as well. Read my original comment again, my criticism doesn't really apply to medical marijuana.

Using the excuse that there are worse drugs is just whataboutism 101. There's a reason those examples also have heavy legislation surrounding them in most countries, but I would argue that our societies are still struggling to deal with their negative consequences. Now we are adding more drugs into the mix that are complementary to those, making them more potent, and even affect the same risk groups. But what I'm also worried, beyond negative side-effects and addiction, are the psychological consequences.

Feeling like shit is something evolution left so that we could shape our relations and priorities with, to, and versus society. When it's too much then you have depression and it can be a medical condition, but you are supposed to feel like shit because the circumstances are shit, you are supposed to deal with shit, and you are supposed to gain experience from other times you deal with shit because the gravity of shit usually means of having to employ approaches that are shitty and need to be particularly nuanced to avoid making them even more shittier.

Psychological studies aside, as someone who lives near a drug dealing hotspot, it isn't the addiction or the negative health consequences making a lot of drug users act like shit, it's the erosion of the capacity to perceive what's right and wrong because you are always giving yourself a transcendental pat in the back even when surrounded with the people who have committed violent crimes to sustain their drug habit. Drug users can become jerks, and yes, you don't need drugs for that, but there is already enough toxicity in the world, it adds more of it. More importantly, maybe you do need to become a jerk but by taking drugs you won't really know whether it's really the drug making you become a jerk.

And yes, addictive food should and is becoming criminalized. That's why some countries/states are putting taxes on junk food and soda. The effects are negative, they are addictive, and even psychological with some of the shit that's allowed. Food and beverage companies aren't your friend, Coca-Cola was Cocaine-Cola at one point of its history. Don't get started en excessively sugary cereals and refined carbohydrates that may be linked to the increase in autism. Again, whataboutism.