this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
112 points (87.8% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5279 readers
999 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Correct.
If you want to evaluate the candidates on their energy policies (for some fuckin reason, as if it is necessary to have a comparison between these two on the merits), you can check into what each of them wants to do, and how much sense it makes.
If you want to pressure the Democrats to be more climate friendly in their policies, probably the best way is just to educate voters about what a vital issue it is (change the calculus of what positions will win or lose them elections), or maybe make the case to the Democrats that support for the fossil fuel industry isn’t as vital as it used to be (e.g. point to candidates in PA who were openly hostile to the industry who still got elected e.g. Fetterman)
Picking out one random wedge issue, and covering it in terms of whether Harris “flip flopped” between her support for the Green New Deal several years ago which included this one provision and now at this point not really saying much about it, as if that is gonna make anyone better informed about what is going on, makes no sense. It’s just creating a conflict between two random single statements at the very fringes of what a coherent energy / climate policy would even be. But it makes perfect sense if you’re casting about for some random cherry picked thing to say about her that sounds bad (and in a very particular way that will lose her support from both fossil fuel people and climate people, because each of them can focus on one time frame of her position which is alarming to them that they disagree with.)
OK, so your complaint isn't about the factual nature of the reporting (Harris's policy stance hasn't been misrepresented as far as I can tell) your complaint is how it's being contextualized and presented.
So it's not "made up" hostile nonsense, it's maybe just simply "hostile nonsense" from your perspective.
I mean, Obama really did wear a tan suit. He really did ask for Dijon mustard. Maybe it would have been more accurate for me to say “ginned up” instead of “made up,” because generally speaking they are more or less factual yes.
Like I say, someone from the left who’s all upset about Obama’s drone strikes and saying hey WTF we need better than this, that 100% makes sense to me. But if someone is attacking Obama about the tan suit, and then when they’re called out they say well what about the drone strikes, I’m just trying to push him to the left, that seems dishonest to me. Doesn’t that accusation make sense?
Idk, I think fracking is a much bigger deal than the tan-suit panic but who knows, maybe that's how chuds felt about Obama's fashion choices.
edit: just as an aside, seeing as how this is a climate community, i would have thought Harris's energy policy would be very relevant to discussion and not in any way irrelevant.
Oh, fracking is a huge deal. As is the rest of energy policy, as is the half a billion tons per year CO2e that Biden’s policies have removed from our emissions.
I was referring to the idea of removing any level of qualified analysis from the evaluation of Harris’s real policies proposed or otherwise, and replacing it with “she made THIS one-off comment several years ago about something that is purely a performative aspect of any policy because the current congressional climate simply will not allow a ban on fracking anyway, and then that contradicts this OTHER one-off comment she made just recently about something SHE’S A FUCKIN FLIP FLOPPER” horse race disingenuous bullshit
Hope this helps
You can't simply analyze your way out of the extremely unhealthy/unsustainable/environmentally damaging practice that is fracking by pointing to CO^2^ reduction policies. People aren't objecting to fracking because of its CO^2^ emissions (not just, anyway), it's a problem because it poisons aquifers and causes untold amounts of harm to subterranean and geological systems. Saying 'but look at all the other good stuff they're doing for CO^2^ reduction!' is only compelling if CO^2^ was the primary concern of the practice (it isn't).
And anyway, you could have that conversation without constantly complaining about certain factual statements not aligning to your prejudiced electoral motivations and without coming into every conversation accusing people you disagree with of misrepresenting reality
lmao oh well fuck me then, guess we can't expect any progress from our politicians
Why do I always find you in the comments trying to nuance your way out of criticizing democratic positions.
So then I said, Herr Thälmann, how important is nuance, in analyzing a political situation? How important is compromise with people even who don’t see eye to eye with you perfectly, politically?
And he said, ZERO. Just push for what you want. If it’s not perfect, it’s garbage; try to oppose it. Compromise is the obstacle to progress.
And I said wait. How can I hear you? I thought you died. In Buchenwald.
And from that point on, I heard nothing. Only silence.
"If you have nothing good to say about my party then you must be seeking to overthrow it."
'What could go wrong with compromising with fascists' he wonders