this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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I have a problem with establishing boundaries.

I'm a private person. That's very often misinterpreted as being arrogant and feeling superior to others. I'm not, I just wish to be left alone, but people still feel disrespected and it's tiring to be constantly explaining yourself. And I don't understand why I have to explain myself constantly.

This very emotional and thankful patient wanted a picture with me and I stupidly agreed. He also wanted my phone number (I gave him a false one) to invite me to have lunch, as he celebrated his 70th birthday. I don't believe it was sexual or romantic, because he is married, his wife was there when he extended the invitation and took the picture and he also wanted to invite the whole unit.

I acted like this because it was the easiest way to get him to leave the hospital and free the room but also because I didn't want to cause a scene.

What could I do next time?

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[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

It's shocking how many people are suggesting lying in a way that's so easy to get caught. "Weird I just took a picture with the nurses and the other doctor." That's going to make it even more awkward.

If I were you, just suck it up and take the picture, and then say you dont hand out your private number to patients and like to keep the relationships professional. This is presumably honest.

Not taking the picture is really spitting in the guys face. It's so quick and it goes a long way to making them feel good, and feel good about you. It's one of those things I would explain to my kid that you just do it and get it out of the way even if you don't like it.

Not giving our your number is entirely reasonable, and I suspect is also honest.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Not taking the picture is really spitting in the guys face. It's so quick and it goes a long way to making them feel good, and feel good about you. It's one of those things I would explain to my kid that you just do it and get it out of the way even if you don't like it.

I simply don't want to be in anyone's photo album. Not respecting my privacy is incredibly disrespectful and mean.

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Having your picture in someone else's album is such a non-thing that it just doesn't make sense to be this upset over it.

I swear this is like arguing that you don't want to say please and thank you because you don't like talking to other people. Just suck it up and do it, as it greases the wheels of social interaction and would clearly, at least in the case of the OP, make this person happy.

If you said no and they did so anyway, that would be disrespectful and mean. But telling you that it's the polite thing to do, and that you're just getting upset over what amounts to nothing, is neither of those two things.

[–] OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I dont like my picture on the internet. So I refuse all photos where possible. I have family, they take pictures, they're aware of this and so I'm never the direct focus of the shot (you might see me in the background).

OP said they don't want to take pictures with people, they shouldn't have to take pictures with someone. Instead, you should be teaching your son to stand up for their boundaries, even in the face of 'tradition'. If your kid says "I don't like hugging grandma", are you making them give hugs or are you encouraging them to tell people in their life, who they trust, how they feel?

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What about saying please and thank you? If my kid doesn't want to show that kind of respect to those around them, should be like "good job setting boundaries" or should I point out how this will hurt them and upset other people?

I would never force my children to do anything they don't want to (well, I guess I can't say that because, well, anyone who is a parent knows thats just a pipe dream lol). More to the point, I'm also not forcing the OP. They asked for advice, and I gave it. And yes if my kids didn't want to hug my mother, I would probably explain to them that this is likely to hurt them because of tension it might create in their relationship, physical affection is generally a positive thing for bother parties, and how it also hurts their grandmother.

[–] OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Please and thank you don't violate barriers. It does not allow someone into your space, you don't have to give anything of yourself to say them, and if you're a good person you probably mean them. A better example for what you're looking for would be handshakes. It's common in most western cultures at several social functions, and it can be considered rather rude to refuse one, it got a lot of folks angry during covid apparently. That's where two parties acknowledge the social bindings that call for a physical touch establishing a mutual respect. I never miss saying a please and thank you, but best believe I'm still doing the 'covid shrug' when I turn down handshakes.

So, you'd tell your child that "yes, you have autonomy in this, but your feelings regarding your need for personal space matter less than your grandmother's want for a hug" is what I'm gathering? Do you educate your mother on the child's wants/needs? There's a reason why people are educated that, as far as physical touch is concerned, nobody else's feelings should be taken into account. If someone can't love a child without hugs, then I don't think they really understand the concept or application of love.

I'm not saying this is your case, the next bit is an extreme but important to the overall argument, I think. People have identified that exact thinking pattern in why they didn't report sexual assault from a family member. Because they weren't taught how to properly say no and why the right to refuse touch is important, it was that much easier to abuse them.

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago

Please and thank you don’t violate barriers.

Sure they do. Some people don't like to talk to other people, and don't want to have to say these things. Hell, sometimes I say please and thank you to people I don't even like, even resisting the urge to be rude because i don't like them, but because I realize it's the right thing to do. You're basically agreeing with my point here, you are just putting the threshold of what constitutes a violation of a barrier at a different point, and arbitrarily putting some line at "space." That invasion of barriers is okay, telling people that they should say please and thank you, but others are not. The argument is really a matter of degrees.

Let's be clear, we both agree that you don't always put aside your own wants and needs to please another person. But sometimes it just makes sense to do so.

So, you’d tell your child that “yes, you have autonomy in this, but your feelings regarding your need for personal space matter less than your grandmother’s want for a hug” is what I’m gathering?

No, it's not what you are gathering. That's just how you are twisting it because you are trying to win the argument rather than come to some mutually agreeable position. I'm explaining to them that sometimes you should put your own minor issues aside for other people. I feel like you are arguing the opposite - which is why you are putting this in my mouth - and saying that your desires and wants should always be put above other people's desires and wants.

Do you educate your mother on the child’s wants/needs?

Absolutely. Quite frequently. Relatively, way more than having to guide my child in towards the right answer.

There’s a reason why people are educated that, as far as physical touch is concerned, nobody else’s feelings should be taken into account.

I wish the world was this black and white and that you should always put your selfish desires above everyone else's needs and desires. Unfortunately, the world we live in is an incredibly grey place where most things are a matter of degrees rather than a simply "yes/no" and sometimes the answer is to put others first.

Like, for instance, if they don't want to briefly hug grandmom simply because they don't like the way she smells. . .well, sometimes old people smell different, and if we love them we want to show that love to them in their love language. If that's by a huge, then we should probably strongly consider doing it. If they don't want to hug grandma because they have some sensory issues and any touch is bothersome, so be it that's completely different and I know my mother would understand that. But the black and white answer to this question is wrong either way.

People have identified that exact thinking pattern in why they didn’t report sexual assault from a family member. Because they weren’t taught how to properly say no and why the right to refuse touch is important, it was that much easier to abuse them.

I assure you my children are taught what is and what is not appropriate touching, and we have a very open relationship where we discuss things all the time. But I feel like this is a "humans are bad at assessing risk" type of thing. . .like you're so afraid of the rare instance where a child abused, that you are trading that outside risk for the near sure risk of them not developing good relationships with other people, which is a powerful skill.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Not respecting my privacy is incredibly disrespectful and mean.

You are wildly overstating it. Do you file a grievance every time the bank records your image? Privacy is not a right. You DID associate with the man, you DID socialize with the man, but you are so set against him recording the event that you consider it "incredibly disrespectful and mean?" Dude, that is a YOU thing.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No, it's disrespectful to not respect my wish.

If one can't respect a simple "no thanks", fuck em.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

It's a little rude. That's it. Nobody needs your permission to take your photo. They are doing you a social courtesy to ask at all. You deal with it with infinite grace when a corporation takes your photo. You can tamp down your umbrage a wee bit, I think, when someone you have a personal relationship with requests the same grace. Yes, it's a little rude. No, it's not "incredibly disrespectful and mean."

[–] lud@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

They don't need permission to take a photo of me, but they obviously do need permission to take a photo with me.

There is a huge difference there Jerkface.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago

I mean, it's easier if you cooperate, but clearly they don't need your permission if they are quicker or smarter than you.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's a little rude.

No it is not. What is rude and weird and creepy is your idea that people have obligation to take a photo with you.

They are doing you a social courtesy to ask at all.

Oh my. You must be chairman of your local incel club, huh?

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

You DID associate with the man, you DID socialize with the man

She did neither of these things. She rendered some services in a professional setting.

When I work in the store and sell you new shoes, I also "did not socialize with you" and it gives you absolutely no right to my privacy.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It's one of those things I would explain to my kid that you just do it and get it out of the way even if you don't like it.

and if he wanted to grab her ass just a little bit, would you also explain to your kid to just suck it up and get it over with?

Sucks to be your kid, if you have some.

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Are you comparing sexual assault to having your photo taken? Yikes.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I am explaining to you that it is not your job to decide where other person have their boundaries.

Your only job is to respect them when they tell you, otherwise you risk anything between broken nose and jail.

And you seem to be strangely bent on explaining that it is really your opinion on someone else's boundaries that matters, which is why you sound like a creep, you "yikes"

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

which is why you sound like a creep,

Yeah this is just too bizarre to continue. I'm done.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago

This has been bizarre since the moment you opened your mouth, too bad it didn't stop you then.