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yeah, how dare israel strike the guys who ordered attacks on them, by air and by land (but they probably won't, too much fallout and risk of starting a war they can't finish)
In accordance to multiple UN resolutions and international law, as well as simple ethics, occupied people have a right to armed resistance. Occupiers and apartheid states do not.
One has to remember that in 1948, the UN was basically nothing but the League of Nations and some puppet states, which had to be bribed and threatened for the motion to pass.
Terrorism is not armed resistance
How do you feel about Nelson Mandela?
The attack on October 7th certainly had a much much MUCH better uniform/civilian kill ratio (about 1:1) than what ever Israel does (probably in the order or 1:100 if we're being EXTREMELY generous).
MK killed fewer than a hundred people and had killed nobody before Mandela was arrested. Comparing MK to Hamas is pretty ridiculous considering Hamas has intentionally gone after civilians.
But hey, if Hamas gets out there and loudly proclaims their adherence to non-violence like Mandela did then I’d be ecstatic.
Fine by me, 2state solution yesterday, do the occupied recognize Israel's 67 borders?
PS: Or do you think israel is going to recognize Palestine only for Palestine to be an islamist spearhead right in the heart of Israel for Iran's attacks? Don't give the fascists in power in Israel more ammo to shame the pacifists.
So far the only ones who have blocked that continuously is Israel. I for one think that's still a bad deal and would be satisfied with nothing else but a one state solution, but I understand how desperate the Palestinians are and wouldn't fault them either way.
"Pacifism" serves no one but the oppressor. No one's ever freed themselves without strength of actions.
I was talking about israeli pacifists, who are basically treated as a joke after Oct 7th and apparently by you too. Israel was on the brink of a civil war between the fascists and rule of law moderates before Oct 7th and this attack solidified the fascists in power for decades.
None of the pacifist israeli are ruling israel
and they probably never will, if the fascists inside and the aggressors outside keep them irrelevant.
Unless they were advocating for a one state solution, yes, yes I do.
Israel was created by a UN resolution, simultaneously with Palestine and is a result of the Arabs and Jews as winners against the Ottoman empire in WW1 and the nazis in WW2. They both got land. Jews got half of Palestine. Arabs got everything else: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and half of Palestine. What was the problem here, exactly? Maybe the solution is to return everything to the Brits or the Ottomans. No more squabbling, lol.
Palestine was meant to go entirely to the Palestinian.
Zionist terror campaigns and assassinations against the British forced them to concede land to the Zionists.
Zionists were literally trying to ally with Nazi Germany against Britain during WW2 ffs.
I know the mufti of Jerusalem was best buds with Hitler, but I've never heard that one. Isn't that part of Mahmoud Abbas' goofy PhD thesis?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
Than there’s also the Haavara Agreement where they agreed to stop boycotting Nazi Germany so that they could get more people over to colonise/invade Palestine.
And as I’m sure you know many members of Lehi went on to have long lasting careers in Israeli politics, even being Netanyahus mentor and founding the Likud party he belongs to.
So the people who wanted to ally with the Nazis still run Israel today, crazy world.
Please tell me that you means pre 67 borders and not 1967 borders
"how dare they". Because targeted assassinations are murder. They are barbaric and in contradiction to the rule of law. And with the civilian "casualties" in Beirut and Tehran it would be appropriate to condemn them as acts of terror, because that is what they are.
At this stage, anything that happens in this war is a crime and murder (listen to yourself: if they are targetted in decapitation strikes, it's a crime, if they are indiscriminate, it is even worse) so I'd rather they go after the leaders of hamas who organized the escalations than bomb Palestine any more.
PS: yet the bombing of Palestine is ongoing. More civilians among them journalists dead today...
PS2: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-releases-file-seized-in-gaza-to-show-al-jazeera-reporter-was-hamas-member/
Should natanyaho be killed because israelis are killing civilians?
I would care as much about that as about killing Sinwar: not, they both deserve it.
They still killed one of the more moderate leaders of Hamas. I won’t weep for the guy but I just see this perpetuating the cycle of violence.
Moderate?
The guy who lead Hamas when they threw Fatah officials off buildings and shot into crowds of their supporters?
That under him Hamas charter included this very moderate part
He wasn't a moderate in any way, and it's bizarre to see people referring to him in this way.
It’s all relative. The guy still sucks, but he was still a part of the wing of Hamas that is looking to negotiate.
Edit: also the Hamas charter was revised to remove that in 2017 when he took power as the chair of the Hamas political bureau. I’ll ask you this, do you honestly think his death will change anything? That another person won’t just step in his place and continue killing Israelis? That’s my point, this is a cycle that will just perpetuate. There are no actors in this with clean hands.
All the negotiations were approved by Sinwar in Gaza, who's supposedly the most fanatic one.
His death weakens them, although it's certainly not enough. But he's also not the only one they got to.
Hamas is close to losing their grip on Gaza. It will benefit everyone if they become irrelevant.
I think what they mean is that as a leader, he does not really believe his own propaganda, so he can be pragmatic, but if you kill him, whoever succeeds him might be one of the guys who actually believed that fanatically. Or he really does believe that, given his history.
If one of the guys who ordered the Oct 7th escalation was the only hope for peace in Gaza...I'm not sure there is any point in negotiating with hamas. Isn't there any leader in Gaza outside hamas?
There have been atrocities for decades perpetuated by both Palestinians and Israelis. Some people that have done absolutely heinous things will need to be involved in the peace process for it to actually work considering those people are the ones perpetuating the cycle. Look at what happened with the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland and Truth and Reconciliation in South Africa (this one is far more one sided but still applicable).
The Good Friday agreement would not have been posible if Ireland was 20km away from London and smuggling in help from hostile actors.
The IRA was armed in part by Libya which was absolutely a hostile state in the UK’s eyes at the time. They almost killed Margaret Thatcher. They had many operatives in Great Britain, I don’t see how the Irish Sea significantly changes things considering there is a massive wall between Gaza and Israel that is easier to defend than thousands of miles of coastline.
I did not know that, but still, those weapons were not 20km away from London. This is not just fascists in Israel, even the moderates feel too threatened to oppose the fascist narrative.
They bombed London during the troubles quite often, actually.
I quoted the 20km distance as the distance between Palestine's borders and major capitals in Israel, but yes, there were lots of bombings in Israel, but I guess they controlled that with the border walls and a police state...again...Ireland is easier to let go as a colony, not right on top of you.
Even if things never got as bloody as Palestine, everyone should still cherish the reasonableness in the Good Friday agreement.
They haven’t let go of Ireland as a colony though.
I absolutely do cherish the GFA and I see how a bunch of stubborn, violent men had to get together and painstakingly iron out an imperfect peace to achieve it. I want the same for Israel and Palestine.