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this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2024
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Don't confuse leftists with Democrats, we are not the same thing. Democrats are right wing and support the oppressive status quo that keeps the marginalized, marginalized.
We will not support someone with her political record, shes a cop and ACAB
I get your rationale. But like I said in my comment, leftists and communists, as I assume you espouse to be, understand harm reduction. Voting for a third party or not voting only allows fascists to come to power. That is a fact. That's what happened in Germany where the leftists/communists couldn't agree on anything with the Catholic Democrats and that allowed the Nazis to come into power under the auspices of unity and competency. Just like the Republicans are pitching right now. You say that the status quo keeps the marginalize, marginalized. But you know what also keeps the marginalized, marginalized, and leads to much worse outcomes for the marginalized? Republicans winning.
Democrats aren't perfect, hell, they fucking suck about some other core parts of communist goals. But when you refuse to vote or vote for a third party, you destroy the ability for us communists to continue fighting for our ideals instead of being rounded up and killed in camps.
My right to exist is on the line. Democrats will allow me to exist and continue to fight for a better future. Republicans will declare my existence pornographic, say that anyone who distributes or is a part of porn with be put in jail and called a sex offender, then will Institute the death penalty for sex offenders. I will literally be put in prison if Republicans win in November.
I want to keep existing and not be made illegal so I can continue to espouse and fight for my belief in the effectiveness of communists ideals. I know multiple communists who believe the same. And yes, we are communists, not democrats in disguise. We just also understand how politics works and that our lives are on the line.
I can't convince you to vote for her. It just won't happen. But this is why you'll come up against fellow communists who will vote for her. I hope you can understand at least our reasoning for voting for her, even if you don't agree with it.
I don't get their rationale all. They're either dumb as a toddler that can't get their way so they hold their breath, or they're malicious provacatours that want Trump to win for whatever reasons.
They're lemmy.ml so it is the provocateurs one.
A communist that participates in right wing electoral politics is not a communist.
A communist who does not participate in the election of the country's leader is merely performative and cares more about being an "outsider" instead of actually advancing goals.
They're not our country's leaders. They are capitalist leaders, they are leaders for the donor class. The working class has zero representation in government, the occasional crumbs they will throw us is not representation, it's to keep people silent and pacified. And voters will defend those crumbs, tooth and nail for fear of losing their crumbs
So then what are you doing to spread your communist ideals?
Apparently voting to let a literal Nazi into office like a pure dumbass.
Like the place isn't already being run by fascists.
Ah, I see, you lack critical thinking.
A critique of critical thinking skills coming from people that allows their party to appoint their handpicked chosen representatives and then claiming we need to save democracy is easily dismissed as bullshit.
A bit odd that you mention this talking point, given it's largely repeated only by Republicans
And anyone with common sense. The party claims they are the party of preserving democracy while simultaneously subverting it.
Propaganda to get a far-right dictator installed in the US so that it collapses and allows China and/or Russia to expand. Source: they are from lemmy.ml.
Your solution is electing the people directly fighting leftists? The role of Democrats is not to defeat Republicans but to prevent leftists movements and organizations from gaining power or influence. They are gatekeepers to prevent progress
So, you're not actually even promoting communism in any way. Just fighting against Democrats, specifically. Not against the fascists, but very specifically against Democrats.
Curious.
Democrats are the gatekeepers to fascism. Im punching right but democrats keep getting in the way.
Yeah it will be much easier to make progress if we get the further-right guys who want to send the National Guard in to get student protesters. Floating ideas that protesters should be deported. That's the clearest and swiftest path to leftism, a Repub president that urges cops to beat the shit out of protesters.
Totally unlike cop actions during Palestinian protests?
So you are saying you are fine with the president urging them to do worse. Psychotic.
Who do you support, and how are they polling?
Who I support is irrelevant and how they're polling is irrelevant. I vote my conscience, not who is most popular, it's that popularity contest that gets people voting against their own interests. Because they're only concerned about being on a winning team, not necessarily what that winning team is going to do to the marginalized and the working class.
The most progressive champion of the marginalized and working class is irrelevant if they don't win the popularity contest. My conscience requires I actually accomplish something with my actions.
Fighting over and defending the bread crumbs they toss us is not progress
Real crumbs are more useful than purely hypothetical loaves.
The rich getting richer while we getting keep getting poorer is not hypothetical
That's totally unrelated to my statement.
Yea what kinda response is this? Did the OP reply to the wrong thread?
They have an agenda. They don't care about the question so long as they can turn it to the subject they want to talk about.
You are trying to claim there can be no progress unless we elect enough Democrats, that's happened before and all we've gotten is crumbs.
And when we don't elect enough Democrats we don't even get crumbs. What's your point?
And it's fear of losing your crumbs why people will never find their proverbial balls and do what's right for people and society
Easier to do what's right when you've got crumbs to nibble on than when you're starving. Accelerationism is a deranged and wildly privileged alternative.
Liberals have somehow convinced themselves that a slow death via poisoning is somehow better than a fast death via poisoning. The prolonged agony of society because of that poison continues to poison generation after generation.
Slow death buys time for other action, it's objectively better. No one's saying you're not allowed to take other actions too. They'll be harder to enact under P2025, it's a no brainer.
People have been saying it buys time for generations, buys time and what we have gained? Gained no more progress for civil rights and labor rights and wage rights and housing rights and healthcare rights. For the last hundred years we've been having the same conversations about these inequalities for several generations. And we will have these same conversations for the next few generations because we are getting nowhere because people have convinced themselves that they are buying time with a slow poison.
Harm reduction and buying time relies on a hypothetical worse future, so you don't spend time concerned about the horrible present. Keeping you always asking for the potential of something better later instead of demanding a better now
For the last hundred years every advance we have made was under one party, and the worst of the steps back were made under the other. Real change is made from the ground up, voting isn't sufficient, but it is necessary. It's like you refuse to acknowledge the basic logic.
I'm not saying you're a troll trying to split leftists away from the democratic candidate so the fascists can win, but if you were, how would your talking points be different?
Because there is no logic, I'm not trying to split leftists away from the Democratic candidate because if they are leftists they would not be voting for a Democratic candidate.
My point exactly.
Do you want to stop that from happening?
Eliminate the ones that enabled the problems.
You unwittingly just told us everything we need to know. You don't want to actually solve problems. You want to eliminate the people who created the problems. And getting rid of the people who enabled the problems doesn't fix the problems.
This is why you don't understand harm reduction and aren't actually doing anything to help address the problems. You don't want to solve the problems. You just want to get one over on those who've screwed us over.
It's an understandable sentiment, by all means, but this is why fictional stories tend to be critical of revenge. You become so lost in punishing someone that you value vengeance over actually addressing what that person did.
The nobles burnt the village and hurt some of the villagers for fun. Instead of rebuilding what they destroyed and helping treat the injured, you just want to kill the nobles. It'll feel good to succeed, but the village will still need rebuilding, and the people who needed healing will be dead.
Someone who cares more about overthrowing the industrialists, at the expense of their fellow proletariat, is no communist. They're just one of Stalin's useful thugs, and the only thing they'll succeed in changing is who's causing the problems -- not solving the problem itself.
TLDR: You don't actually care about leftist ideals, you just want revenge.
So you're supporting a literal Nazi instead