ptfrd

joined 6 months ago
[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

as far as I’m aware, they’ve done 1 EVA to look at the thing

Don't think so.

They do have access to camera imagery, but as you say, most problems like this probably need much more intrusive investigation.

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

A landing leg failure, for example, likely could be quickly cleared because it is not used in other phases of flight

I assume SpaceX wouldn't make any big assumptions along these lines though?

I imagine, for example, that a worn component that could fail catastrophically on landing might also be at risk of some kind of failure during max Q, in a way that affects the primary mission.

Of course, there could come a point where you judge that so unlikely as to be not worth wasting any (further) time on.

But as an armchair observer I'm fairly glad to see a pause at this point before Polaris Dawn, even just a couple of days ...

“We’re just focused on recovery weather at this point,” he said after the announcement of the FAA investigation into the booster landing anomaly. “I think that is still gate to our launch.”

Surprising. Does this mean they have good reason to think they'll get a Public Safety Determination in a matter of days? Does the FAA work weekends?

P.S. If a landing leg realistically could, say, pop open at max Q, I guess that further strengthens the argument in favour of rocket 'catchings' rather than rocket landings!

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago

the host says they’re going to higher altitudes than the Apollo program

Ah, yes, well normally that would be my opportunity to remind people of Gell-Mann amnesia.

But this time it’s unfair to the host. Isaacman has made that mistake himself on (I think) multiple occasions. She might have got it from him. (Perhaps indirectly.) Here’s one: https://youtu.be/aASZ2rKdS6I?t=1m2s (He meant “since”, not “than”.)

One source of confusion might be if this crew is planning to be in the highest 'free' orbit of Earth ever occupied by humans. Where I'm using 'free' as a vague way of trying to exclude, for example, the astronauts who were actually on the moon (which is of course orbiting the Earth).

Is that a scientifically/technically legitimate & meaningful distinction? If so, is there a better term for it?

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

the host says they’re going to higher altitudes than the Apollo program

Ah, yes, well normally that would be my opportunity to remind people of Gell-Mann amnesia.

But this time it's unfair to the host. Isaacman has made that mistake himself on (I think) multiple occasions. She might have got it from him. (Perhaps indirectly.) Here's one: https://youtu.be/aASZ2rKdS6I?t=1m2s (He meant "since", not "than".)

this one doesn’t really have anything that makes it fundamentally unsafe.

You're probably right, but we'll see. The altitude and the spacewalk are the first big new initiatives for SpaceX's human spaceflight work that haven't been done under close NASA supervision. That's probably a good thing but ... I'm nervous.

Talking of the altitude, this is from the article:

The mission is scheduled to launch between 3:30 and 7 a.m. Eastern Aug. 26 in one of three instantaneous launch windows. Isaacman said the launch times were selected by SpaceX to minimize the micrometeoroid and orbital debris impact risk to the mission given its unconventional orbit.

He said it during the event (which is available to watch here), and I don't think any further explanation was given for why certain launch times are better than others for MMOD. Does anyone understand why? Is it obvious? Any resources I could check out to learn more?

Talking of the article, they still haven't fixed the first sentence!:

spacewalk on a is ready

If Jeff or anyone else from Space News is reading this, hire me as your proofreader!

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Interesting title on the video about this, just uploaded to YT by CBS News: SpaceX sending private citizens on risky mission that includes spacewalk attempt

I find myself agreeing with the sentiment. I'm fairly nervous about this mission.

Don't get me wrong, I'd jump at the chance to join it. I'd choose it over a routine trip on Starliner, but not for the reason you might be thinking. ... I can't help wondering if Polaris Dawn is both higher risk and reward than a routine trip on Starliner.

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

No, that's this one, funded by a crypto billionaire, announced a week ago and launching in ~4 months.

Polaris Dawn is funded by a payments processing billionaire, announced 2.5 years ago, and launching this month.

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

That has to be a requirement regardless I guess since a depressurization could happen on any flight.

Yes, this has been pointed out by the crew (IIRC) in an interview about the mission. (Not to suggest that no work was needed on the issue, just less work than people might expect. Obviously it can be the case that taking an unlikely contingency scenario and making it a deliberate part of a mission, raises the level of assurance needed.)

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In the implication here that it is Congress who want a diversity of suppliers, whereas NASA doesn’t care as much?

Yes, I think that's the implication. I realized it's not correct but decided to leave it like that. I'm a big picture kinda guy; someone else can sort out the details!

I guess it might be more like a combined NASA / Space Force high level strategic fund providing the subsidy. So that individual 'low level' programmes within NASA / Space Force then don't have to worry too much about the long term strategic goals like dissimilar redundancy, and can mostly just focus on their own needs.

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

If NASA decides to send Starliner back empty, it's a vote of no confidence in Boeing that may lead the company to cut its losses and withdraw from the program.

How would this work, contractually? Would they have to give back the whole $4.1 billion (or whatever)? And pay penalties on top to cover NASA's costs?

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

the most likely alternative would be to bring the astronauts back using SpaceX's Crew Dragon by removing two astronauts from the Crew-9 mission

The most likely? Not convinced. Wouldn't anyone removed from Crew-9 just be shifted to Crew-10? So it'd seem silly to announce Crew-10 only to have to change it a week later.

And even if they don't care about looking silly in that way, they might instead just go with one empty seat 'uphill' for each of Crew 9 and 10. Because that's a less drastic change to make to Crew 9 at such short notice.

But maybe I'm wrong. So, assuming the quoted scenario actually is what happens ...

I guess they'd have to keep the Russian (Gorbunov)?

And keep the capsule commander (Cardman)? But she's never been to space, so maybe the pilot (Hague)? I can't immediately see if he was expected to be the ISS commander, but if so, I guess that would give them a good excuse to 'promote' him over Cardman?

Wilson has had more launches than Hague (3 versus 2ish) but a lot less time in space, and I don't know if she would be as well trained for Dragon as the commander & pilot.

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

They say they really like Starliner, and I think they mean it. After all, it's not that bad! If you offered me a free trip to space in it, I'd jump at the chance.

In fact I'd offer to pay at least 1/3 of my net worth. (Sadly this doesn't quite equate to the current cost-per-astronaut of, what, $150m?)

[–] ptfrd@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Turns out that some of the later parts of the video I posted largely negated my above comment.

What do you think will happen to the other one? Do you think they’ll maintain a Florida splashdown capability indefinitely, as a backup

Question at 43:08.

43:56 "There may be a small transition period as we're moving vessels through the Panama Canal ... where we can support either Coast ..." (implying not indefinite)

e.g. in case of bad weather in all the new West Coast splashdown zones

51:15 "one benefit of moving to the West Coast is much better weather"

Also of interest ...

30:39. Sounds like they didn't bother with a Public Safety Determination in the end, and just went directly to full(?) approval.

 

Relevant portion of the video is 18:06 - 22:22.

Key quote: "We'll move a Dragon recovery vessel to the Pacific some time next year, and we'll use SpaceX facilities in the Port of Long Beach for initial post-flight processing".

Although this was revealed in a Crew-9 briefing, it doesn't actually apply to Crew-9.

The announcement has just now been posted to the SpaceX website.

Key excerpts:

During Dragon’s first 21 missions, the trunk remained attached to the vehicle’s pressurized section until after the deorbit burn was completed. Shortly before the spacecraft began reentering the atmosphere, the trunk was jettisoned to ensure it safely splashed down in unpopulated areas in the Pacific Ocean.

After seven years of successful recovery operations on the U.S. West Coast, Dragon recovery operations moved to the East Coast in 2019, enabling teams to unpack and deliver critical cargo to NASA teams in Florida more efficiently and transport crews more quickly to Kennedy Space Center. Additionally, the proximity of the new splashdown locations to SpaceX’s Dragon processing facility at Cape Canaveral Space Force Base in Florida allowed SpaceX teams to recover and refurbish Dragon spacecraft at a faster rate [...]

This shift required SpaceX to develop what has become our current Dragon recovery operations, first implemented during the Demo-1 and CRS-21 missions. Today, Dragon’s trunk is jettisoned prior to the vehicle’s deorbit burn while still in orbit, passively reentering and breaking up in the Earth’s atmosphere in the days to months that follow. [...]

When developing Dragon’s current reentry operations, SpaceX and NASA engineering teams used industry-standard models to understand the trunk’s breakup characteristics. These models predicted that the trunk would fully burn up due to the high temperatures created by air resistance during high-speed reentries into Earth’s atmosphere, leaving no debris. The results of these models was a determining factor in our decision to passively deorbit the trunk and enable Dragon splashdowns off the coast of Florida.

In 2022, however, trunk debris from NASA’s Crew-1 mission to the International Space Station was discovered in Australia, indicating the industry models were not fully accurate with regards to large, composite structures such as Dragon’s trunk. [...]

After careful review and consideration of all potential solutions – coupled with the new knowledge about the standard industry models and that Dragon trunks do not fully burn-up during reentry – SpaceX teams concluded the most effective path forward is to return to West Coast recovery operations.

To accomplish this, SpaceX will implement a software change that will have Dragon execute its deorbit burn before jettisoning the trunk, similar to our first 21 Dragon recoveries. Moving trunk separation after the deorbit burn places the trunk on a known reentry trajectory, with the trunk safely splashing down uprange of the Dragon spacecraft off the coast of California.

 

That's 27 hours from now.

SpaceX is targeting Saturday, July 27 for a Falcon 9 launch of 23 Starlink satellites to low-Earth orbit from Launch Complex 39A (LC-39A) at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Liftoff is targeted for 12:21 a.m. ET, with backup opportunities available until 4:21 a.m. ET.

And here is their blogpost, dated 2024-07-25, announcing that the mishap report has been submitted to the FAA, and discussing some of the details.

During the first burn of Falcon 9’s second stage engine, a liquid oxygen leak developed within the insulation around the upper stage engine. The cause of the leak was identified as a crack in a sense line for a pressure sensor attached to the vehicle’s oxygen system. This line cracked due to fatigue caused by high loading from engine vibration and looseness in the clamp that normally constrains the line.

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by ptfrd@sh.itjust.works to c/spacex@sh.itjust.works
 

During tonight’s Falcon 9 launch of Starlink from Space Launch Complex 4 East at Vandenberg Space Force Base in California, the second stage engine did not complete its second burn. As a result, the Starlink satellites were deployed into a lower than intended orbit. SpaceX has made contact with five of the satellites so far and is attempting to have them raise orbit using their ion thrusters.

There's also a tweet saying the same thing in fewer words.

This is the affected mission: Starlink 9-3 launch bulletin

Let's hope it was due to SpaceX pushing the envelope on their in-house Starlink missions in some way, though I have no specific guesses along those lines. Perhaps a manufacturing defect or an operational mistake are more likely to be the leading candidates for the cause.

 

Quote from Bill Nelson:

... SpaceX, by having the return of the first stage, has brought the cost down significantly. That has affected the entire launch industry. We'll be seeing attempts at bringing the second stage down on some missions.

The key sentence is (currently) 52 minutes and 48 seconds into the video. Approximately 49 minutes after the event started.

No other mention is made of this. Should we assume he's specifically referring to the 2nd Stage of the Falcon 9? What is the likelihood that he is mistaken? Could he just be thinking of the existing deorbit procedure? Or could SpaceX be putting parachutes on some of their 2nd Stages in the near future?

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