Otome-chan

"we as an instance" you're on kbin. has kbin defederated? I just woke up so maybe I missed something this morning but.... this is the sh.itjust.works community lol.

my thoughts exactly about people who are anti loli. if they can't tell the difference between a small anime adult and an actual anime child, you have major issues.

there's also a difference between a prepubescent anime child and a loli anime adult.

just out of interest. in this pic, how old do you think hayase looks?

Drawn characters can look like anything, so trying to discern an age out of a drawing is silly. Hayase is an adult loli. Characters younger than her would look different. For reference here she is in context with other characters. notably a typical adult male, and a child. You can see she's very obviously not a child once placed in context. When looking at the lineup, she does indeed "appear younger than the others". The thing about loli characters is that they're like tofu, they change and appear different depending on the context. Hayase looks super young in the lineup, but then in context she appears older and clearly an adult (or maybe later teen).

So what would be your stance of sexualised images of that character or a similar one?

On characters like hayase my stance is it's understandable why one might ban due to potential legal implications. However, she's an adult, does not appear as a child in context, is not presented as a child, and is a drawing, and should not be legal as per societal laws. Personally I'm not sexually attracted to loli characters (as stated elsewhere my preference is clearly older-looking adults in 30yo range).

See, thet problem is, all your justifications come from within your lolita community. Not from outside the community, which is ultimately who you are judged by when this shit comes into thte public sphere..

The question isn't "do you find loli offputting" it's "do you think this should be illegal". and if I had to say whether it should be illegal my answer is no. There is a lot of nsfw content that I think is offputting, disgusting, AND should be illegal. Yet I do not see others complaining about it, nor do I think people would end up agreeing. For example, bestiality is illegal IRL. yet many people draw bestiality nsfw images. should those similarly be banned? do you think that warrants defederation, and criminality? over a drawing? Yet furries are very common.

Until it becomes public and you suddenly expect people to accept your justifications.

tbh, other peoples' morality is not really something I care for. to me, most people are morally corrupt and despicable. look at every single person who voted joe biden, a known rapist, pedophile, and war criminal. and then those people have the audacity to judge me because I said a drawing harms no one? really?

I like the gamecube controller the best for using. though because I'm a weirdo who likes the weirdest stuff, I'm super fond of the n64 controller.

In practice there's two kinds of lolis IMO. there's the stereotypic kind which is similar to chibi characters. there's pretty much unanimous consensus that these should not be involved in nsfw. then there's the "pedo bait" kind as mentioned, which is basically the anime equivalent of "recent 18" (but at any age). short, flat, youthful, not overtly a child.

it seems obvious that lemmynsfw has banned the former, and allowed the latter.

As for pedophilia: my stance is this: pedophilia is a mental disorder and those people should get medical treatment and help, CP of real people should be banned entirely and illegal. It is never okay.

Is this image some sort of gospel?

no? I just did a quick search, found it to be a useful guide, and shared.

there's no visual or stylistic difference between Hestia and Naruse.

yes they are indeed quite similar. hestia is borderline loli at best, but the point remains. Oshino is perhaps the best example of a typical loli character in that image.

So clearly this image is piss poor at communicating some sort of clear visual definition of Loli.

Because you're failing to understand what loli actually is. First, there is a spectrum of appearances and styles. But second, that it's really not about age. It's a similar sort of situation to "chibi" which are also not children.

Now here's the image Wikipedia uses for lolicon:

Yes so the characters shown in that pic do fall under "loli" but loli does not only refer to characters that look like that. loli characters can look like adults. they can look underage. they can be adults. they can be underage. they can look like a mix of underage and adult. Wikipedia's example is perhaps the most "extreme" usage of the word, which makes sense since it's trying to provide an example of the concept unambiguously. though a variety of examples are really needed tbh.

I think the consensus is that for anyone who is not a Loli connoisseur, lolicon is pretty much defined by Wikis view of it, not some random image that doesn't really clarify much about true Loli characteristics.

I mean you're free to think as you please. but it's clear you'd consider any man who dates me to be a pedophile which is obviously laughable.

I have no problem with hentai of adult or ambiguously adult characters. I'm just saying that if you're gonna call it Loli, people are gonna expect the image I linked to.

Sure then I think it's a communication breakdown. When most people speak of nsfw imagery of lolis and say it's fine, they're talking about stuff like this (sfw example). undeniably a loli, not obviously a child. might be a teen or adult from visuals. The example wikipedia has is the other "popular" type of loli character, who typically do not show up in nsfw content except the most extreme, are considered 'looking underage' and pretty much banned from most nsfw stuff and lemmynsfw clearly has banned it.

To me, lemmynsfw's post seems to suggest the image I shared is allowed, while the image you shared is not. Is this not the interpretation you got as well? When people react harshly, to me I think it's because they are probably looking at that wiki image thinking that's what lemmynsfw is allowing (when it's not).

"loli" refers to both types.

so there you have it. you're essentially arguing full actual adults are "child porn". fuck off with that bs.

IMO, unless it's explicitly illegal, people should be free to share/say/discuss it. let people decide what they wish to see on their own and curate their own experience.

I agree that proper tagging and filtering should be in place. Personally my preference is to show all content, but to blur nsfw until hovering over it. proper tagging is a win for everyone.

and yes, I think that having "all" as the default front page is an odd decision. I'm opposed to defederating, but I'm a big advocate for people controlling and curating their own experience and what they see. in that regard, I agree there should be good tools for filtering this stuff on the user-level.

I could say all humans look under 18 to me, and thus all porn is banned.

ultimately, loli does not refer to actual human beings. it does not refer to an age. loli characters can be undeniably adults and appear as such.

Surely, if a character is canonically an adult, appears as an adult, is unmistakably an adult, and are not based on a real person, then they can't possibly fall under what you are saying, yes?