FizzyOrange

joined 1 year ago
[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 11 minutes ago

I dunno if you're being deliberately obtuse, but just in case you really did miss his point: the fact that type hints are optional (and not especially popular) means many libraries don't have them. It's much more painful to use a library without type hints because you lose all of their many benefits.

This obviously isn't a problem in languages that require static types (Go, Rust, Java, etc..) and it isn't a problem with Typescript because static types are far more popular in JavaScript/Typescript land so it's fairly rare to run into a library that doesn't have them.

And yeah you can just not use the library at all but that's just ignoring the problem.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 32 minutes ago

A sane language, you say.

Yes:

Operator '+' cannot be applied to types 'number[]' and 'number[]'.

We're talking about Typescript here. Also I did say that it has some big warts, but you can mostly avoid them with ESLint (and Typescript of course).

Let's not pretend Python doesn't have similar warts:

>>> x = -5
>>> y = -5
>>> x is y
True
>>> x = -6
>>> y = -6
>>> x is y
False
>>> x = -6; y = -6; x is y
True
>>> isinstance(False, int)
True
>>> [f() for f in [lambda: i for i in range(10)]]
[9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9]

There's a whole very long list here. Don't get be wrong, Python does a decent job of not being crazy. But so does Typescript+ESLint.

I’ve worked professionally in python for several years and I don’t think it’s ever caused a serious problem. Everything’s in docker so you don’t even use venv.

"It's so bad I have resorted to using Docker whenever I use Python."

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 1 points 52 minutes ago

Well == is a question or a query rather than a declaration of the state of things because it isn't necessarily true.

You can write

a = (3 == 4)

which is perfectly valid code; it will just set a to be false, because the answer to the question "does 3 equal 4?" is no.

I think you've got it anyway.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 22 points 14 hours ago

Ok after reading the article this is bullshit. It's only because they are counting JavaScript and Typescript separately.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 0 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Typescript is far nicer than Python though. Well I will give Python one point: arbitrary precision integers was absolutely the right decision. Dealing with u64s in Typescript is a right pain.

But apart from that it's difficult to see a single point on which Python is clearly better than Typescript:

  • Static typing. Pyright is great but it's entirely optional and rarely used. Typescript obviously wins here.
  • Tooling. Deno is fantastic but even if we regress to Node/NPM it's still a million miles better than the absolute dog shit pile of vomit that is Pip & venv. Sorry Python but admit your flaws. uv is a shining beacon of light here but I have little hope that the upstream Python devs will recognise that they need to immediately ditch pip in favour of officially endorsing uv. No. They'll keep it on the sidelines until the uv devs run out of hope and money and give up.
  • Performance. Well I don't need to say more.
  • Language sanity. They're pretty on par here I think - both so-so. JavaScript has big warts (the whole prototype system was clearly a dumb idea) but you can easily avoid them, especially with ESLint. But Python has equally but warts that Pylint will tell you about, e.g. having to tediously specify the encoding for every file access.
  • Libraries & ecosystem. Again I would say there's no much in it. You'd obviously be insane to use Python for anything web related (unless it's for Django which is admittedly decent). On the other hand Python clearly dominates in AI, at least if you don't care about actually deploying anything.
[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 7 points 1 day ago (4 children)

They seem exactly the same to me: when a variable is assigned a value, it’s equal to that value now.

Yeah it's confusing because in maths they are the same and use the same symbol but they are 100% not the same in programming, yet they confusingly used the same symbol. In fact they even used the mathematical equality symbol (=) for the thing that is least like equality (i.e. assignment).

To be fair not all languages made that mistake. There are a fair few where assignment is like

x := 20

Or

x <- 20

which is probably the most logical option because it really conveys the "store 20 in x" meaning.

Anyway on to your actual question... They definitely aren't the same in programming. Probably the simplest way to think of it is that assignment is a command: make these things equal! and equality is a question: are these things equal?

So for example equality will never mutate it's arguments. x == y will never change x or y because you're just asking "are they equal?". The value of that equality expression is a bool (true or false) so you can do something like:

a = (x == y)

x == y asks if they are equal and becomes a bool with the answer, and then the = stores that answer inside a.

In contrast = always mutates something. You can do this:

a = 3
a = 4
print(a)

And it will print 4. If you do this:

a = 3
a == 4
print(a)

It will (if the language doesn't complain at you for this mistake) print 3 because the == doesn't actually change a.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 0 points 2 days ago

Interesting how they build a community starting with rebasing on top of Gitea, and then hard-forked later. Probably a good blueprint for forking.

GPL move also seems like a good idea - it reduces the chance of needing yet another fork.

Can they get whoever came up with the excellent name "Codeberg" to fix the terrible name "Forgejo" though? It's not quite as bad a name as GIMP or Got, but still...

Also i absolutely hate how they talk about moderation. You can't just say "someone was banned for some actions". That doesn't inspire confidence at all! Imagine if the police were always saying "one of your peers was sent to prison for a crime" and refused to say who or what they did. That's communist Russia territory...

They claim they can't say because of the right to be forgotten but that's not what the right to be forgotten means.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

... in one benchmark.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It does still have a traditional assignment operator. You can assign values to mutable variables.

Also I would say let-binds are still pretty much assignment; they just support destructuring. Plenty of languages support that to some extent (JavaScript for example) and you wouldn't say they don't have assignment.

I don't think it affects the ability to overload = anyway. I think there aren't any situations in Rust where it would be ambiguous which one you meant. Certainly none of the examples you gave compile with both = and ==. Maybe there's some obscure case we haven't thought of.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 22 points 2 days ago (13 children)

>= and <= match the mathematical operators. The question you want to ask is why doesn't it use = for equality, and the answer is that = is already used for assignment (inherited from C among other languages).

In theory a language could use = for assignment and equality but it might be a bit confusing and error prone. Maybe not though. Someone try it and report back.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They've been doing that for about the last 6 releases. I wish they'd fix some of the long-standing annoying bugs like the fact that you can't respect .gitignore and search in a subdirectory at the same time. Or the fact that you can't stage a submodule unless you also have that submodule open.

Or how about a less annoying way to configure Run/Debug than launch.json?

Still, can't complain. It's mostly free and still very good overall. I'll definitely be watching Zed... but maybe not too closely until it supports opening large files.

 

Does anyone know of a website that will show you a graph of open/closed issues and PRs for a GitHub repo? This seems like such an obvious basic feature but GitHub only has a useless "insights" page which doesn't really show you anything.

 

Very impressive IDE integration for Dart macros. Something to aspire to.

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