This person is openly telling you that the only thing stopping them from being a shitty person is some myth about otherworldly punishment after they die.
Which, of course, means they’ll be juuuust as shitty as they believe they can get away with.
this post was submitted on 19 May 2024
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Yeah, the "why be good if there's no God/Hell" is a disturbing as fuck argument, because it essentially says that if they decide that their god wants them to start killing, they'll do it.
I'm good because if I do something bad, I feel bad about it. It's pretty simple.
exactly. i understand that doing bad things is bad because i feel guilt and shame when i do bad things. conversely, i feel good when i do good things. I also understand the broader implications of both-- not to mention that i have empathy and can see the impact of my actions upon others while caring as well.
i don't need a fairy tale to threaten me with eternal torture in order to not be a sociopath.
That's the problem. These people lack empathy. They don't feel happy when they make someone else happy unless they get something more than that out of it.
because they've been taught that life is a zero-sum game: if anyone else's life improves - even just a little - it must necessarily come at the cost of someone else's life getting worse. this isn't true, of course, but they can't see life as any other way, so the ideas of equality and working together to improve society are antithetical to their worldview. they're to be fought. They have an "every man for himself" philosophy, and it's nothing but selfish, self-centered solipsism.
And it also makes them treat their kids like shit.
Why make your kid feel good if you don't gain anything?
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If you and I have an interaction that leaves us both happy, that's socialism and GOPJesus frowns on socialism.
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I had a coworker catholic who both said that statement, and also argued animals had no souls, so no one should ever get in trouble for animal abuse. Along with his ridiculously heated response to any government involvement in Healthcare, and the way he got close to yelling when discussing these topics while also claiming he was just being logical, not emotional. Why yes he did call women emotional, how did you know?
People like him scare me, because it sounds like if he could use some religious context to say I didn't have a soul, he'd probably come to the same conclusion he did about dogs.
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Yeah that's my takeaway from that argument as well. If you have to be threatened by some vague notion of a future punishment in order to not be a complete dickwad, you're clearly not a good person.
Why be good if there's no hell? Because to live is to suffer. Society sucks. Accepting that, working past it, and being kind to those around you makes everything slightly more bearable. You are to be kind to others because it's the right thing to be.
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Its scary that people need hell to not commit crimes and stuff like that.
"I already commit all the murder and rape I want. The number of times I want to rape and murder just happens to be 0." - Penn Gillette
Tbf, there were a few times I've wanted to murder some people.
same. But it's not fear of God that keeps me from doing it. It's the dread of going to prison.
Just like Taco Guy. He knows there are no tacos in prison so he lives life in such a way to avoid prison.
For me I'd say its a mix of legal repercussions AND knowing that murder is wrong and that a society that allows it isnt really a safe society to be a part of, so while someone might be being awful enough to me that the thought crossed my mind, maybe I should go find somewhere to cool down. But, like you said, god had nothing to do with any of that
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The number of apparently utterly batshit insane potential criminals that are only held in check (barely) by religion in the US is quite disturbing.
The reality is that they aren't held in check. Rural crime is widely underreported because cops in the boonies won't take a report about domestic violence unless it involves a trip to the hospital
unfortunately, this is often true in big cities as well.
things are a lot better in that regard than they used to be. dv is no longer by default regarded as a "private matter," laws and resources have improved.
on the flip side, dv can be hard to prove, especially to a busy cop or judge. and policing is also not a profession averse to abusers.
edit typo
As an atheist I can't tell you how many Christians have asked me why I don't just rape and murder people if I don't believe in hell. Tells me everything I need to know about that POS.
If I need hell to control my behavior I might as well be running around doing this
which frankly sounds better
Brain - Candied
Tapeworm - Fed
Heads - Crushed
Chicken- Ladied
Take that, atheists 😎
Agreed. If the only that stops some people from committing crimes is the threat of supernatural punishment, then they have the morality of an insect.
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I always hate that argument. Why be a decent human without the threat of eternal damnation? I mean that threat doesn't seem to stop a vast number of religious people from being unbelievably cruel to their fellow humans, so....
If anything, it just used as justification for bad behavior. “My genocide is completely justified. It’s what God wanted!”
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There are also plenty of good people in places with religions that have afterlives but not hell or any threat of eternal punishment.
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Religion doesn't stop a bad person from being evil. It can convince a bad person they're still good (better!) when they do evil.
And good people don't need religion to do good. But it can make them overlook the evil of other religious people and protect them, making them bad.
The best-case scenario is that religion can have no effect on how good or bad someone is. Good people stay good despite religion, not because of it.
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I don't. It tells you, in clear language, the type of person that this "loving Christian" is. They literally can't imagine altruism, and that says more about them than what they think they're saying about me.
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People who say they are only good because of the threat of eternal damnation are literal psychopaths.
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Why be good if there is no hell?
Because morale is a societal and not a religious thing.
It seriously feels good to see this written down sometimes. I hate that religion somehow laid claim to morality.
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"Why even be good if there's no heaven?"
They are actually absolutely right. Because I don't believe in heaven, I'm exactly as evil as I want to be
I sexually assault and murder exactly as much as I want to, and that amount is zero... ok, at least the sexually assault part
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Virgin "I live in an existentialist mental hell I've been indoctrinated into" vs Chad "A meaningless life in a purposeless universe means I'm the master of my own destiny, and therefore I choose to eat tacos"
Why be good if there is no hell?
Erm... If you need to be threathened with eternal torture in order to be a good person, then chances are you are not good person.
Exactly this thought made made me understand "god is irrelevant" a long time ago and I became an agnosticist.
I really can not understand people who are only "good" because they fear an ultimate judgment, and not be good just because they want to out of their own volition.
In case there are gods, I'll be judged for who I am, anyways. It doesn't matter if I play "good child". If there are no gods, I'm still happier if I'm not an asshole.
What I find even more reprehensible than the sentiment "Without the threat of consequences, why should I be decent?" is that their own fucking book holds the answer to their goddamn question (not an expletive here, their god should and probably would damn them for it):
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12
The first half of this is a principle independent of religion, a fundamental social contract, the most critical idea underpinning any functioning society: Expect your behaviour to be reciprocated, and act accordingly. If you want others to help you if you need it, help people (if you can). If you want others to be kind to you, be kind to others. If you're gonna be a prick, expect others to be just as prickly to you.
If all that keeps you from murdering people is the threat of eternal damnation, you forget that your own scripture says "If you kill people, expect that others may kill you in turn."
Bonus: the biblical Jesus was known to hate hypocrites that pick out one piece of scripture to follow and ignore another and pharisees that carefully interpret and follow the letter of the law to find loopholes and ignore the heart of it. Those people lawyering their way around the otherwise unmistakable passages about generosity and giving away your wealth? Believe it or not, straight to hell.
More disgusting than the sentiment mentioned at the start is the hypocrisy of selectively applying it, the inconsistency in their own beliefs, the hollow facade of devotion while spitting on the principles they perjure to obey.
Signed, an apostate whose faith was shattered by fallacy of preaching love while children suffer and threatening hell while blasphemers thrive.
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I can confirm that Heaven is on Earth and it's on the side of the road in Mexico. 🥰
Hell may, or may not come after heaven. The taco works in mysterious ways
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If you need the promise of punishment to be good, then you're not a good person.
I've said it before I'll say it again. If you need the threat of eternal damnation weighing over you to be a good person, you're not a good person.
Instructions unclear. Unintentionally started sectarian conflict over whether mole poblano or salsa verde is the correct sauce for baptism.
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"Have you accepted the al pastor into your heart?"
you seriously don't understand god
says the poor lost soul who also says
why be good if there is no hell
Do many adults still go around ~~spouting~~ believing whatever they heard from their parents or Sunday school teacher when they were children, just to get them to stop asking "complicated questions"?
EDIT: a word
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