this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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According to a summary of the bill released by the Patriotic Millionaires—an advocacy group that helped craft the measure—the wealth tax would have four brackets:

  • 2% for all wealth between 1,000 and 10,000 times median household wealth;
  • 4% for all wealth between 10,000 and 100,000 times median household wealth;
  • 6% for all wealth between 100,000 and 1,000,000 times median household wealth; and
  • 8% for all wealth over 1,000,000 times median household wealth;

"In the unlikely event median household wealth fell below $50,000 from its current level of about $120,000, the thresholds would be fixed at $50 million, $500 million, $5 billion, and $50 billion respectively.”

The legislation would also require at least a 30% IRS audit rate on households affected by the new wealth tax.

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[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

For everyone saying this is not harsh enough, it is a WEALTH tax. Not income, wealth. All owned assets. Meaning any of these people who don't increase their net worth by at least the amount of the tax each year will lose more and more of their total wealth year over year.

It isn't intended to strip all mega rich people of all their stuff immediately - that obviously could never pass - but still is intended to open the door to wealth taxes and redistributive policies more broadly.

It's a great move. If we can get anything like this passed, it is a significant victory.

[–] NovaPrime@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just getting something like this out of committee and on the floor for debate would be huge. Unfortunately it stands no chance with the current congress

[–] drphungky@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I really love the floating design of the tax pegged to household income, but I'd probably oppose it due to exactly what you say: it opens the door to wealth taxes, which are by and large a bad idea.

We've proven time and time again that congress can't properly tax the wealthy, and will always eventually default to squeezing revenue out of the middle class. 50 million as a minimum sounds nice and high until they add a bracket at 25 million, then 10, then before you know it there's a non-inflation adjusted tax at 1 million or 500k. All that serves to do is hurt savers and the elderly (who will naturally have higher nest eggs being closer to retirement). This will 100% eventually come to pass, because taxing wealth is a further nudge towards a consumption (and therefore growth) based economy that publicly traded companies need to continue extracting wealth from consumers, so it will be lobbied for by all monied interests, both the rich and industry.

There are tons of other issues with a wealth tax like creating a new bureaucracy to measure wealth (not impossible, as some people say, just expensive), the fact that people are taxed for gains they may not have realized or just for leaving money in the bank or stock market, something that is actually good for the economy, and other complaints. It's also just inferior to a better income tax, and expanding income taxes to eliminate the loopholes the megarich use, chief among them borrowing against collateralized debt. If someone gets a loan but puts up stock or properties as collateral, that loan should count as income. There are tons of other loopholes, and the fact that we're ignoring low-hanging fruit and talking about wealth taxes shows me this is about scoring political points, not actually trying to reform how our government gets money.

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[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 5 points 1 year ago

My understanding is that this would be x% of your total wealth, which is much more reasonable.

So you would pay an extra 2% of your total worth every year. So at a billion that's 20 million, at 980 million 19 million and change, etc.

The numbers could be much higher, but this is a lot of funds. It also would take several generations for the inheritance to drop below "you'll never spend this" to just "you can live on the interest". Even with zero interest on their investments (which is absurd - so really this would more be a source of funds than anything). At least it would be a starting point

[–] Sneptaur@pawb.social 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This plan is so very soft on the billionaires and yet we are going to see it being resisted violently and with extreme prejudice.

[–] ATQ@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

By temporarily embarrassed millionaires, no less.

[–] slicedcheesegremlin@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even most of the extremely rich aren't effected by this, if you calculate it out you need over 31,000,000 dollars before the lowest bracket kicks in.

[–] joekar1990@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Uh my house will totally be worth that much so I hate this!

/S

[–] twelvefloatinghands@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Keep in mind it's a wealth tax, not an income tax, so these numbers hit way harder than the income tax ones you're used to.

[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

It hits the same as property tax hits, because property tax is also a form of wealth tax.

[–] Sneptaur@pawb.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How so? It works help to have that context

[–] Holomew@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Income taxes only effect money earned that year, and have plenty of loopholes to lower that amount significantly. A wealth tax is based on total wealth owned, so it hits every year at the full amount, assuming wealth never goes down. Think property taxes; you pay the same amount for your house tax every year, because you still own it. And if the value increases, so do the taxes.

[–] Sneptaur@pawb.social 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you, that helps a lot.

[–] Alto@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

It's got a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere, but it's nigh time a wealth tax entered the realm of possibility

[–] extant@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Isn't the issue that they are currently hiding and obfuscating their income? Increasing the percentage is a great idea and all but 1% or 8% of zero is still zero.

[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It literally says "all wealth" and doesn't talk about income at all.

This is exactly the kind of tax we need. I think its a very interesting idea to tie it to median wealth, though using household as opposed to individual wealth I'm not sold on.

[–] extant@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

The same point still stands regardless of it's income tax or any other arbitrary constraint, if they hide their assets how do you apply this policy to that?

[–] neeeeDanke@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The legislation would also require at least a 30% IRS audit rate on households affected by the new wealth tax, according to the summary.

[–] extant@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't understand what this statement says. The it's has to pick 30% of all households that make more than a thousand times the medium income? Is that lower than standard or higher? Why 30% and not 100%?

[–] neeeeDanke@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

since they took the effort to include it in the proposal, I would assume it is significantly higher. Where I live the standard often varies from state so state, because some states use a low enforcement rate to attract buissnesses ("as in yeah, our federal taxes aren't cheaper here, but we if you cheat it's not like we are gonna catch you...").

I assume not a 100% because that would be a herculean effort and at a certain point if your chances of getting caught are high enough -and there are significant fines- you won't need 100% because the risk is high enough to make most people not cheat out of fear of getting caught.

[–] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Eight whole percent. I can hear their boots shaking now /s

Go with the Bernie plan. Anything over $1B is taxed at 100%. Shit, I think even that is too soft. Nobody needs even a fraction of that to for themselves and their children's children's children's ... to live like kings their entire lives.

Also, it's always hilarious how American politicians are so obsessed with overly on-the-nose acronyms for legislation.

[–] Zaktor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

You're almost certainly confusing wealth taxes with income taxes. Bernie Sanders had a wealth tax plan, it ranged from 1%-8% depending on wealth. From $1B to $2.5B the rate was 5%.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 1 year ago

Next year, late summer.

[–] Irv@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] drphungky@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Supreme court ruled income taxes unconstitutional a couple times too, they still eventually happened...

But yeah wealth taxes are a bad idea. Just close income tax loopholes for crying out loud.

[–] quindraco@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

"Veto" isn't the correct term, but you are otherwise entirely correct.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Wealth taxes are super easy to avoid, so I'd much rather see something like cap gains+"luxury" sales/income taxes and such, but it's a step in the right direction

Now raise taxes on everyone making over 100k and we're really cooking with gas

[–] MisterCreamyShits@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

$100k aint that much and those people already have a heafty tax burden. Plus luxury taxes are easily avoided when yachts and planes are purchased in the Bahamas. What we need are 50% taxes on the money they borrow against their assets. Want to buy another mansion? Cool 50% tax on the money Goldman Sachs lends you against your Amazon stock. If I have to pay a tax to borrow against my 401k so should these assholes.

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[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

But income tax on paper is already higher for the $100k tax bracket than what the ultra rich pay. The ultra rich do everything in their power to not have an "income". Hence why there's this effort of taxing wealth instead.

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