this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023

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Federal judge blocks Biden administration’s restrictive asylum rule (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 year ago by BlackRose to c/world@lemmy.world

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[+] dorkian_gray@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

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[–] rexxit@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That was a different time before a reasonable house in a major metro area cost $500k-$1m. Capitalists want endless population growth forever to make their investments go up, and the only way they can get it in educated nations with low birth rate is immigration. Canada explicitly targets it. The population is doubling at the expense of affordability. I'll never be able to afford a house because everyone wants to live here, and immigration policy is set by those who favor endless growth.

[+] dorkian_gray@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

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[–] rexxit@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I appreciate the data-supported arguments but the comment on doubling was a stated goal of the Canadian national government. The Canadian population is presently projected to double in 26 years. Geographically constrained places with high immigration like Australia and Canada are shockingly unaffordable right now. These places are the canary in the coal mine for the US, which may have plenty of usable land on paper, but has the same issues with a self perpetuating cycle of the major metro areas having all the jobs and limited room to grow. The population is up 50% in my lifetime and I think that accurately reflects real estate becoming increasingly unattainable.

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is that housing-as-investment is wrong, but the basis for housing-as-investment (and indeed all investment) is the projection of increased future demand. In developed nations, this comes from immigration. If the population were shrinking indefinitely, housing certainly wouldn't be increasing in value

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Canada and Australia are both very large counties with relatively small populations. They are in no way geographically constrained.

[–] rexxit@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Huge areas of Canada are at high latitudes and very dark, cold, and inhospitable in the winter. Something like 50% of Canada's population lives south of the northern extent of the US (i.e. south of Seattle, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, half of MN, and almost all of MT/ND.

https://www.secretmuseum.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/canada-population-density-map-this-is-how-empty-canada-really-is-photos-huffpost-canada-of-canada-population-density-map.gif

Huge areas of Australia are desert.

The population distribution of Canada and Australia is not an accident. The coasts and more temperate climates are much more hospitable.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know a number of Canadians who live in those less dense areas .(I grew up in MN, and sometimes went north to a chruch camp in Canada) there is a lot of room near the border for people.

[–] rexxit@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's a lot of land in North Dakota as well. It's super flat, boring, and winters are ultra cold and windy as hell. There are very good reasons it has a low population. It's further south than most of the places in Canada you're talking about.

EDIT: I'd like to add that "we're not overpopulated, there's plenty of land!" isn't really the whole story, either. Occupying every square mile that can be occupied should not be a goal. Leaving more places in a natural state without human impact is highly desirable, IMO.

[+] dorkian_gray@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

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[–] rexxit@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It sounds like we generally agree that there are structural reasons quite aside from population growth, and agree that they desperately need to be addressed (i.e. regulatory). I'm arguing from the perspective that we should absolutely attempt to address these reasons, but that ANY population growth from any source is essentially adding fuel to the fire.

I think a lot of emphasis gets put on "supply-side" solutions that sound a lot like "just build more houses, NBD!". From what I've observed we can't get there with the existing land without (IMO) excessive densification and/or sprawl which has an easily-felt deleterious effect on livability. I've spent the last couple of decades living in very different places, and watched them change due to growth. In all cases growth has caused traffic that never existed before, MASSIVE crowding of local attractions that can't be mitigated without restrictive permitting, and astronomical increases in the price of real estate. Without being hyperbolic at all, more population has quite literally been felt as less freedom. Some of this is due to the rise of the global middle class, but they have their hands in my home places at the expense of locals, and it's gone from great to hellish in about 20-30 years.

The problems with new housing seem to be:

limited/no affordable land available in places where people have historically lived (and which have jobs, nice weather, natural attractions, etc)
materials are at a premium due to increased global demand (and, admittedly the pandemic)
Local first-world labor has never been more expensive - labor doesn't scale like computing and related tech
densification in the form of attached dwellings on small land parcels, and no/fewer personal vehicles is a large decrease in QOL compared to the historic "American dream"

Like if you think you can find 10 million people to give up LA/Seattle/NY/etc and move to central Kansas, where there's no ocean, no mountains, no lakes, no jobs, and nothing to do, more power to you. People live in interesting places for good reasons, and other places are cheap for good reasons.

An adjacent point: nature abhors a vacuum. If the QOL is better in the US and there are ~8 billion possible candidates for immigration, our population could easily double in a month. The demand is there. We could adopt a policy of open borders until QOL reaches equilibrium at some much lower level and immigration stops - we could also make immigration virtually impossible - or anything in-between. I'm of the opinion that lower influx means > QOL pretty close to 100% of the time.

EDIT: tl;dr - more individuals translates to reduced individual freedom. I'm not going to get weird and libertarian about it, but that's the relationship I observe.

[–] bluGill@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

As someone on the 'right' the hostility to immigrants is why I rarely vote for a Republican. They often better represent what I want from government ,but this is one area they are terrible. And as you note the democrats are just as bad.

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

Kudos to the judge, especially his specific reasoning regarding Mexico:

In an order that will not take effect for two weeks, Tigar wrote “the rule … cannot remain in place”, in part because it improperly presumes people who enter the country between legal border crossings are ineligible for asylum.
...
The administration had argued that protection systems in other countries that migrants travel through have improved. But Tigar said it was not feasible for some migrants to seek protection in a transit country and noted the violence that many face in Mexico in particular.

He also wrote that the rule was illegal because it presumes that people are ineligible for asylum if they enter the country between legal border crossings. But, Tigar wrote, Congress expressly said that should not affect whether someone is eligible for asylum.

I'm not really seeing a viable appeal here from the Justice Department. IMHO, they should just take the loss and let the ruling stand. This isn't a political winner for Biden, and has the potential to backfire on his administration.

[–] alexius@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Good.

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