this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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Encouraging heat pumps over natural gas would lower long-term costs for homeowners and reduce Ontario's CO2 emissions.

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[–] swordgeek@lemmy.ca 31 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Conservatives go backwards" has become the mantra of this country. Heat pumps, wind and solar, LGBTQ2S+ issues, women's rights, healthcare, everything that we could be progressing on, the conservatives are regressing.

And we keep electing them.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"Conservatives go backwards" has become the mantra of this country

The mantra of every country.

Conservatism is always an attempt to regain some fictitious "golden age" that never really was.

[–] sik0fewl@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

Make we should call them "regressives" instead.

[–] AnotherDirtyAnglo@lemmy.ca 10 points 8 months ago

And before anyone says heat pumps don't work in cold climates... They do. Modern heat pumps work perfectly well down to below -20c -- they're slightly less efficient...

My experience in replacing my electric central furnace and HVAC unit... ... has cut my annual electricity costs by nearly 55%. ... works fine in both summer and winter, the house has never been more comfortable. ... was substantially more expensive than the old style, but because my power costs are low, I may not fully recover the cost. ... only requires I rinse the outside unit off with water two or three times a year, and replace the furnace filters. ... has a heater unit in case we get way, way down to beyond -30c, but that seems profoundly unlikely anymore.

[–] Nouveau_Burnswick@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

So a $4,400 subsidy on new homes, paid for by all natural gas consumers for the next 40 years.

If the gas furnace is so much cheaper than the heat pump up front, then they shouldn't need the hook up cost subsidized to make it more financially attractive.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 7 points 8 months ago

Of course. It would have been too much to hope for Doug Fraud to do something right for once

[–] Tai6VohT@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

Another option which regulators seem to avoid is the adoption of passive house standards for new builds. Our Canadian/North American housing standards depend on large energy inputs for heating and cooling - and that doesn't seem to be changing.

https://passipedia.org/basics

[–] Sir_Osis_of_Liver@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

Meanwhile in New Brunswick, NBPower is offering free heat pumps to homeowners with an income below $70k/yr.

https://www.nbpower.com/en/smart-habits/energy-efficiency-programs/ductless-mini-split-heat-pump-program

My ex just had her 30 year old oil furnace replaced. No cost to her. Hers was a whole house unit, not a mini-split. Cost would have been $15k or so.

[–] jadero@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Oh for heaven's sake. By now, building codes should prohibit new single-family and low-density (< 12 units) multi-family construction with gas hookups, without solar that matches expected electrical demand, and without 3 days of battery backup.

If that means a 900 square foot house instead of a 2500 square foot house and no more low-density multi-family construction so be it.

Likewise, the building codes should require some of that stuff during certain kinds of renovations and repairs. For example, replacing a gas furnace with another gas furnace should be prohibited.

If the grid and manufacturing capacity won't handle it today, then they better damn well get going, because that's what it's going to take.

[–] m0darn@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I love the spirit. We need people making demands like this to move the needle. It's totally insane that it's still possible buy ornamental gas fireplaces that don't even heat the space.

Or that we use propane heaters on patios to heat the outdoors.

Re banning replacement has furnaces... maybe tie it to the scope of work. Like if your furnace breaks down in the winter and you're just replacing it that's one thing, but if you're actually renovating that's something else.

[–] jadero@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

Or that we use propane heaters on patios to heat the outdoors.

I get so cranky when I see those things. They are just... nonsensical. It's almost like there is something in the human psyche that is drawn to the abjectly useless, especially if it also happens to be wasteful beyond it's mere production and distribution.

[–] pbjamm@beehaw.org 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Three days of battery would greatly increase the expense of new construction at a time when everywhere is trying to bring prices down. The battery capacity you would have to have, especially if you use electric heating, would be very high and therefor very expensive. Looking at some quick numbers online solar and battery like that would easily add ca$100k to a construction project.

[–] jadero@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 months ago

True enough, and a valid consideration that must be accounted for in any actual change to building codes.

Keep in mind that I said "by now" not "starting today". Obviously, having done little to this point, we can't just jump to perfection in one step.

It's worth pointing out that Ford claims that their F-150 Lightning can provide up to 3 days of backup power to a household in some configurations. Given what seems to be a trend of building EVs that are capable of providing backup power to households, that should be factored in as we move forward.

And it doesn't have to be 3 days. Overnight in summer would be a good start, followed by overnight in winter, then moving on from there.

The real issue is that I see $350k houses being built in Saskatchewan with nothing. No solar, no heat pump, no passive heating or cooling, and sketchy insulation. The latter 2 were figured out in the 1980s and nothing has been done since at the building code level.

That same money would build a house 1/2 to 1/3 the size, a still adequate size, with solar, heat pumps, good insulation, and decent passive heating and cooling.

[–] psvrh@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 months ago

You can count on conservatives to choose whatever the most profitable option is, no matter how short-sighted, spiteful or harmful it is.

Put it this way: if they could make money making you into soap, they would. Hell, they have in the past.