this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] teft@lemmy.world 66 points 9 months ago (8 children)

Sometimes the B plot is the worst thing aired in an otherwise stellar episode.

Example: "Endgame" Voyager's Finale. Great episode except for the whole Chakotay/Seven romance subplot.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It kind of relates to how Ta'Pol loses her mind by the end of Star Trek Enterprise

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago

Or literally the last three minutes of Trip's story.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 30 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Guy, Guy, Guy... Fairhaven and not Threshold?

[–] Bonehead@kbin.social 42 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I'd still prefer those over Tattoo, where they scrambled to shoehorn in an alien explanation for Chakotay's odd Native beliefs after it was discovered that the consultant on Native beliefs they hired was a complete fraud.

[–] MaggiWuerze@feddit.de 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Uuh, do you have a link to that story? I always found that episode so weird

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 6 points 9 months ago

Oh is that why that episode was created? I had no idea.

I'll give them credit on hushing it up. I watched Voyager as it aired and I didn't find out about the fraud "Native American" they hired until years later.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I understand why they did it though. They had to do something and they couldn't just say "well, Chakotay was a fake indigenous American all this time."

They should have been more up-front about the whole thing, but I can see why they did it.

[–] Bonehead@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

They could have kept most of that episode as a character background filler without the aliens traveling 70000 lightyears over multiple generations just to visit some primative tribe with no language on some backwater planet. That part seems to be the most awkward to shoehorn in.

[–] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

Don't forget that the technologically superior visitors who brought culture to the primitive natives were given the distinct visual design of being white. Nope, no unfortunate implications there.

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[–] GuyFleegman@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I feel like you are overselling "Alliances," but to be fair, this shot was pretty cool

The Trabe ship attacks the conference

They definitely blew the effects budget for the season, though. They put it in the commercial and I swear, it was every other commercial on UPN that week.

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Lizard sex ghost sex it's all fappable.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Thanks, I hate it. And I nearly spat out my coffee.

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if Bev spit or swallowed the ectoplasm.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm not supposed to ban people for making me want to vomit, but you sure make me want to have my mod powers taken away right now.

Ick.

(I don't actually want to ban you.)

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Is it even truly a shit post if a mod doesn't step in to comment on it?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This seems like more of a cum post...

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[–] TubeTalkerX@kbin.social 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)
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[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

May I present to you, SUB ROSA!

Followed shortly after by All Good Things.

The worst and best TNG episodes were only 12 episodes apart.

Edit: got an episode name wrong.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 28 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I still say 'doctor fucks candle ghost' is better than 'captain and pilot turn into amphibians, have babies, then get turned back into people but the babies stay on the planet.'

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 19 points 9 months ago

‘captain and pilot turn into amphibians, have babies, then get turned back into people but the babies stay on the planet.’

"And despite The Doctor knowing how to reverse this side-effect, Voyager doesn't ever use the tech again." Don't forget that part.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (17 children)

Isn't that Voyager though? I was just talking about TNG. I haven't made it that far in Voyager yet. I'm currently watching it. So far I'm not impressed, but I'm going to wait until at least season 3 to pass judgement since even TNG and DS9 don't really pick up until later seasons.

[–] Oiconomia@feddit.de 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Uh, Voyager Had a very ruff start and is objectively garbage until the end of season 3. After that it has a few cool episodes. But then it also makes the Borg boring by overusing them.

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[–] eethi@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Seasons 4 & 5 of Voyager are ita strongest. When it was still airing and in the final season I got my first job and bought a bunch of vhs tapes to record the newest season as it aired, and I started 'best of' tapes from reruns. They were dominated by those two seasons.

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[–] gazter@aussie.zone 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

As someone who is only trek-curious, the problem I often have in this sub is finding fucking amazing shit like this but not knowing which episode it is! How the fuck do I even massage that animorph broken family story into a search query?

And I am certainly not going to put 'Doctor fucks candle ghost' into Google.

Update: I guess I lied, because I certainly did put it into Google. Should I buy this scented candle? https://files.catbox.moe/fpq4i8.png

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[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

May I present to you, SUB ROSA!

sabrosa? the spanish word for delicious?

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[–] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Sub Rosa is awful, but I'm not even sure if it makes the top 5 worst episodes of TNG. Code of Honor, Justice, The Neutral Zone, and Shades of Grey definitely have it beat. And there's several others I'd probably rank as being sub Sub Rosa, but which I would have to rewatch to be certain.

Maybe it's just that Sub Rosa has a distinct "so bad it's good" quality. The superstitious groundskeeper, the fog taking over the enterprise, zombie grandma, it's all so ridiculous in just the right ways, so I can't help but get a few laughs out of it. That's a lot more than I can say about those other episodes.


The one no one ever seems to mention is Transfigurations. It comes right before The Best of Both Worlds (another arguably best episode) and is so incompetently written that it doesn't feel like a real episode. It legitimately feels like they didn't have a real script, just a jumble of notes from a brainstorming session in the writing room where they couldn't decide what they wanted the episode to be about. It just meanders from one cliche premise to the next, with vestigial remnants of subplots still dangling off of it. And for the icing on the cake, the climax it builds up to is a guy in a morph suit pretending to be an energy being, an effect that might have been barely passable in standard definition, but which looks like something that would get laughed off of a power rangers set when watching in HD.

It's probably not the worst episode since it isn't painful or offensive, but it's still a dumpster fire that would fit in better among bad fanfics than actual episodes. I swear, they must have kept it out of the episode rotation too, because I didn't even know it existed until fairly recently.

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Transfigurations at least has a consistent main theme and message, and bad as the final special effect is (my dude I can see the texture on the zentai suit you're wearing) the resolution and the way it unfolds are very Trek, especially the semi-hopeful note of "they're jerks but only because they're ignorant and they might change once they know better." It's easier to forgive a lot of the awkward stuff in the middle when the end is on brand.

Meanwhile, Sub Rosa's only message seems to be "ain't no fuckin' like ghost fuckin'."

Also, I maintain that Code of Honor is the worst episode of TNG by far. Even discounting the uncomfortably possibly racist undertones throughout, the whole thing is full of incredibly regressive and outdated stereotypes of gender even for the time. Also it's just kinda boring.

[–] Makeitstop@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

Sub Rosa's message was "I'd rather be writing gothic horror romance stories, but I'm stuck writing for Star Trek" which is an important enough message that they managed to bring it back as a subplot for the first two seasons of Voyager.

And I didn't mean to say that Transfigurations is necessarily worse than Sub Rosa (though I do enjoy it less), I just wanted to bring it up because I think it's awful in so many ways, and yet I've never seen it discussed.

Transfigurations has an ending consistent with Trek, but not consistent with the rest of the episode. It's a medical mystery plot, then an alien influence plot for all of 30 seconds mixed with a "Geordi is bad with women" plot, then an amnesia mystery running parallel with our love interest of the week plot, followed by a tyrannical alien civilization plot mixed with an energy being with godlike powers plot. A little focus and polish could have made any of those work, but instead it just feels like Trek Trope Mad Libs.

It also uses lazy plot devices that make no sense and seem utterly inconsistent with how Star Trek works. In the beginning, we see a medical device that regulates alien biology by syncing it with human biology, despite the two being potentially very different (and even if they aren't the best it could do would be to mirror what a device designed for humans would do). But we need that to have Geordi get hit by some alien influence I guess. But then we'll mostly drop that plot, except to have the alien tell Geordi that the magic was in him all along.

Later we get an enemy ship that has a "force choke a thousand aliens at once on another ship even though their shields are up" button. How does this technology work? Couldn't they use that effect to target a warp core or something? Who knows, it's just there so that our alien messiah can have a way to save the entire ship using healing powers.

Hell, I can't give credit to the ending because the ending is just a massive exposition dump trying to justify the rest of the episode. Our bland guest star of the week spends several minutes telling us about things we should have seen if they wanted us to care.

In fact, you can see at least one version of what this episode could have been with some trimming and focus by watching Counterpoint on Voyager. You have a tyrannical alien government attempting to wipe out those with mental abilities that they view as a threat, and in the midst of this we have a love interest of the week from that alien civilization, but with questions about who he really is and perhaps whether or not he can be trusted. It doesn't have every element of this episode, but the ones it has are actually fleshed out, and we even have some interesting chemistry in our romantic subplot for a change.

Shit, I just realized that Beverly's love interest in Transfigurations is essentially an energy ghost. She officially has a type. It must run in the family too, because Wesley also had a romantic subplot with a shapeshifter that turned out to be an energy being. And that's not counting the Traveler, who is basically a godlike energy being, and whose interest in Wesley has always had a "there's free candy in the back of my van" vibe to it.

And now I think I need a shower.

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[–] militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago

What ghostfuckery is this

[–] wheeldawg@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How do you need up the name of All Good Things...?

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] Fuck_u_spez_@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you type "mess" on a phone with a gesture/slide keyboard, it draws out a pattern that's nearly identical to the one for the word "need", especially if you're sloppy like me and had to rewrite half this comment.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Oh, well that's a special bit of irony then, isn't it?

[–] yukichigai@kbin.social 22 points 9 months ago (2 children)

TIL people don't like Fair Haven.

I mean it's not the best or anything but I thought it was kinda fun.

[–] wheeldawg@sh.itjust.works 8 points 9 months ago

It was. And I'm tired of pretending it's not.

[–] Snowcano@startrek.website 6 points 9 months ago

Fair Haven fan crew rise up!!

[–] charonn0@startrek.website 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Only episodes that exist count.

[–] charonn0@startrek.website 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I like this reality better than mine.

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