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The flaw with Mark of the Odd games (ttrpg.network)

submitted 2 years ago by Morbid_Corvid@ttrpg.network to c/rpg@ttrpg.network

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Hey all, games like Into the Odd, Electric Bastionland, Mausritter, Cairn, etc. All use Chris McDowall's elegant 'stats as health' concept.

It's a great concept: It keeps the character sheet compact, and links a character's prowess to their condition which is very immersive.

However, there's a flaw in this system I cannot ignore: Strength is by far the most important Stat as almost all attacks target a character's Strength. As a result Dexterity and Will/Charisma damage rarely comes into play.

Whenever possible, I try to apply Dex damage from attacks, traps or poisons that hinder movement, or Wil/Cha damage from spells or poisons that don't affect the target physically, but that's just a houserule and it's not always easy to come up with immersive reasons a foe would have these abilities.

How do you get around that at your table? What are your most common ways of targeting these stats?

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[–] copacetic@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I see the effect but why is it a flaw? Why would you need to „get around“ that?

Characters roll their stats randomly. Some are lucky, some are not. As a player you adapt your strategy accordingly.

[–] Morbid_Corvid@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 years ago

I suppose I see it as a flaw because it generally goes underutilized. It's a cool mechanic, but only 1/3rd of it gets any regular use.

[–] AwkwardTurtle@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Although I do like applying damage to other stats where appropriate, I don't actually think you need to if what you're worried about is balancing them.

STR is the more important attribute if you're consistently getting into combat. All these games share an ethos that combat shouldn't be a hugely frequent thing at the table. In that context, the stats are a lot more "balanced". DEX is by far the most called for Save, in my experience, plus it's how you go first in combat.

WIS/CHA is a little trickier, depending on your individual campaign. Although in Mausritter specifically casting spells can cause WIL damage.

FWIW this is something I grappled with a bit for my own Odd/Cairn hack (slightly exacerbated by some other rules changes), and I eventually came to the conclusion that I didn't need rules changes to fix it. The only thing I really plan to do is make sure the included bestiary includes examples of damage to other attributes.

[–] Morbid_Corvid@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thanks, you make some good points.

Upon reflection, I do tend to approach the game with more combat than it's designed for as my players love combat. And the general lack of dex and wil/cha attacks from sample foes in the various games just exacerbates the issue for me.

I like the Wil damage from casting spells in Mausritter. (If I remember correctly, Into the Dungeon: Revived does it as well.) It makes casting more high-stakes, which is something I love in a game. To me, magic should be scary, even to the one weilding it.

[–] AwkwardTurtle@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago

I guess the question is whether your goal is to make all three stats equally useful, or to make sure the attribute damage mechanic is used equally on all three stats.

If it's the former then increasing the utility of the other two stats with initiative, magic, dodging, etc. would be a good way to go.

If it's the latter then making sure enemies have a wide variety of attacks works. Psychic/psionics, poison, ensnaring, soul damage, etc. would all help.

[–] StaggeredAusements@ttrpg.network 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It hasn't been much of an issue the times I've run Mark of the Odd games (ItO, QZ, and EB specifically), but one possible solution is to steal from Traveller and let players pick which stat is damaged. Traveller also applies damage to stats, but players can pick which of the three physical stats (Strength, Dexterity, or Endurance) sustains damage from an attack.

Letting players pick the stat that sustains damage could de-emphasize STR while adding a simple yet interesting decision, but one obvious issue is that it theoretically triples the HP of the player characters (since players won't willingly choose to have a stat hit 0).

I do agree with AwkwardTurtle's post about balancing the stats, and it's probably the best way without rewriting how damage works.

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