115
In what way did he not do an insurrection? They're just trying to get laws and rulings to apply to Democrats but not Republicans now?
this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
115 points (92.0% liked)
politics
19096 readers
3565 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
You're making the classic mistake of acting as though they are operating in good faith.
They are fascists who do not care about the rule of law. They will do whatever benefits them, whenever it benefits them. In the same sentence they will appeal to your ethics or morality while preaching the polar opposite, with total disregard for logical consistency.
I don't expect them to argue against him inciting an insurrection. I think they will argue that the office of the president isn't a civil office of the United States as laid out in the constitution, as has been a common legal argument brought forth as of late. So they will probably have to argue that the rattifiers of the ammendment were so worried about insurrectionists taking over government that they wanted to prevent it, but not enough they thought the presidency should be barred to insurrectionists.
So they will probably have to argue that the ratifiers of the amendment were so worried about insurrectionists taking over government that they wanted to prevent it, but not enough they thought the presidency should be barred to insurrectionists
Except we have the record for for their debate saying that the 39th Congress who passed the 14th Amendment knew that the Office of the President was indeed an office to be guarded. The reason they enumerated the others in Clause 3 was because multiple people wanted to ensure that those folks too were covered.
But even if the President isn't enumerated Trump has this problem.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
— US Constitution, 10th Amendment
So it not being specified by the Constitution nor being codified by Congress as law, how States want to look at the 14th is up to them. So even if SCOTUS wants to play the "The President is not listed" card. It's not explicitly denied. The tenth amendment indicates that if it's not denied, States get to run with it.
What SCOTUS can rule upon is "due process" which is asserted by the 14th clause 1. SCOTUS could indicate that the process by which Colorado took doesn't meet this bar. But then, SCOTUS would kind of be on the hook for indicating "well what is the official process?" And if they say "Well Congress has to make it up" then we fall back into the "if Congress doesn't say anything, States get to run with it" problem that the 10th amendment grants.
See Colorado isn't trying to impose their will unto everyone, which means this squarely falls into a "State's rights" kind of thing. And that's going to get tricky for the Conservatives to word salad themselves out of that corner they've painted. That's not to say they won't, but it's going to be an interesting read to say the least on how they rule.
I can understand their hesitancy to rule with Colorado because then it'll open a floodgate that we all know that particular states will attempt to abuse. But boy oh boy have they been so strong on States should get to do what they want so hard that this kind of thing was just waiting to come back and bite them on the ass.
Which is some rank fucking bullshit, no way that should be unanimous.
I'm sure they're gonna abandon all pretense of the principled "states decide" position that they used to gut the Voting Rights Act, but that should be a party line vote.
Obviously they will find some way to force him on the ballot; they are crooked hacks, after all.
They always have been.
Can't scotus just stall, for example say that they will take up the case in idk 2026 and call it a day? I mean I would not like it and a lot of people wouldn't but at this point they don't even pretend to be unbiased, right?
The SC is a partisan institution. I haven't seen a convincing argument otherwise.
It’s up to them whether they take a case and when. I’m sure they can and have stalled on cases to not change the results of an ongoing process, but have also taken some more quickly when they think timeliness is important.
A non-partisan SCotUS would pay attention to critical timing and try to minimize the impact
However a partisan court has a bias to take the case and rule according to their preferences
Probably will be on the ballot, they’re just gonna say that they’ll have to revisit the issue if he makes it to the national. Republican Party is free to nominate anyone they choose so it’s not soctus’ place yet or some fucking bullshit. This was always going to happen
They’re desperate to not look more biased than they are, especially since Trump is forcing them to show their hand with the immunity pleas
And what if Colorado/Maine tells the SC to go piss up a rope after the ruling?
I'm no expert, but I would guess a constitutional crisis and then bad stuff (i.e. nobody knows, it's not supposed to happen).
Conceivably there could be military intervention; the national guard was called to intervene after many schools refused to comply with the ruling of Brown v. Board of Education.
Well, all the teabaggers that cry about "states rights" will surely support Colorado/Maine, right?
Right?
what if Colorado/Maine tells the SC to go piss up a rope after the ruling?
Who would care? The MAGA court has lost legitimacy.
The Court issues orders requiring compliance with the holding. If the state officials remain in defiance, then US Marshals arrest the noncompliant state officials, if necessary the President will order the federalizing of the National Guard to provide security to sites and personnel and to ensure compliance with federal law, and so on. Basically the full authority of the federal government being used to bring a rebellious state government to heel.
That's not how this works. The blots would be printed without trumps name on them. Wtf is the national guard going to do, seize ballots? They have no authority. This is a states right issue. The scotus has no power here.
It is not a states’ rights issue, at least not exclusively or primarily. Where’d you get your law degree, Quiznos?
Why would you expect that? SC overrides lower courts all the time and it doesn’t turn into insurrection.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. will doubtless seek consensus or, at least, try to avoid a partisan split of the six Republican appointees against the three Democratic ones.
Among them: The justices could rule that congressional action is needed before courts can intervene, that the constitutional provision at issue does not apply to the presidency or that Mr. Trump’s statements were protected by the First Amendment.
“I expect the court to take advantage of one of the many available routes to avoid holding that Trump is an insurrectionist who therefore can’t be president again,” said Nicholas Stephanopoulos, a law professor at Harvard.
“For the sake of the country, we need resolution of this issue as soon as possible,” said Richard L. Hasen, a law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles.
Mr. Trump was disqualified in Colorado and Maine based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which bars officials who have taken an oath to support the Constitution from holding office if they then engage in an insurrection.
On the other hand, leading conservative law professors who have examined the original meaning of Section 3, which was adopted after the Civil War, have recently concluded that it plainly applies to Mr. Trump and bars him from another term.
The original article contains 1,214 words, the summary contains 211 words. Saved 83%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I just had an image of donnie walking on his tip toes.