this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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[–] JerkyIsSuperior@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe."

Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Windows are dangerous. Also, radioactive umbrellas" - zeppo, a Lemmy Member

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[–] downpunxx@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The Wagnerites also seized the buildings of the head office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB department, the administration of #Rostov and one of the police departments, according to local channels. Nobody in the city understands what's going on.

https://press.coop/@nexta_tv/110596856860216270

[–] andobando@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Like watching Cobra attack the Decepticons.

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[–] lewis6991@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is not a "war", it is a "special military operation".

This is not a "coup", it is a "march for justice".

[–] sudneo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Everyone tries to control the narrative, this is completely normal. Anti-terrorist operation, peacekeeping mission, special military operation, march for X. I don't remember someone who just said "yep, we are invading X".

In this case both Prigozhin and Putin (or the establishment) are trying to control the narrative to gather support from "patriots". Saying you are making a coup sounds antigonizing, while saying you are marching for justice, because it's the government who has betrayed the people does not.

[–] SquishyPandaDev@yiffit.net 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Holly shit this has been picked up by the BBC.

Remember, it doesn't matter if they succeed or not. The fact it has happened will terrify Putin.

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.

Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.

Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.

[–] sudneo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Judging from the address to the nation, this doesn't seem the case now.

The situation is still very confused.

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[–] DrElementary@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is what I'm worried about. I hope they all tear themselves to pieces, but if Putin gets out scot free, I'll be disappointed

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[–] GONADS125@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I welcome russian infighting. Hope it makes it easier for Ukraine to retake Crimea.

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[–] i_simp_4_tedcruz@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I would like to submit "Putin panics and nukes his own people to stop the advance" for my Bingo card.

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[–] Antik@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Holy shit.

Things are getting real real.

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[–] wheresyourshoe@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Things are escalating quickly in Russia.

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[–] easeKItMAn@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] ghostnotes@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If Kiev has been saving something up for a special occasion, this occasion is starting to look pretty special.

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

25,000 troops marching on Moscow. How many does the Kremlin have not already in Ukraine?

[–] Thepinyaroma@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

How many do they have not in Ukraine... Who are also willing to kill fellow Russians? If the average Russian military sentiment is, "Eh, let them through" this could be huge.

Plus a lot of the "Royal Guard" may be well-connected rich kids who are even less inclined to fight.

Way too soon to know for sure, but. 🍿

[–] Yoz@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Can someone please explain what's going on ? I am out of the loop. I know Wagner was fighting for Russia but what happened now?

[–] certain_people@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Everyone in Wagner was about to be conscripted into the regular Russian Army as the latest in an ongoing power struggle between Wagner's boss and the Russian MoD. So to avoid losing his private army, the boss has stepped up the power struggle to an attempted coup, basically.

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[–] UniquesNotUseful@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The head of Wagner was unhappy with Russian military leaders and thought he'd take matters into his own hands as Putin was going to support him. Putin did not. Now there are 10,000 men heading to Moscow.

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[–] lycanrising@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (12 children)

my mind is so blown. i didn’t have wagner turning against russia on my bingo card

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[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

More evidence as to why you don’t hire mercenaries. They are only loyal to the money. I hope the US is watching with their love of PMC’s.

[–] Double_A@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Especially if you send the mercenaries on a nonsense mission to die a pointless death...

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[–] Nerrad@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I for one welcome their new Military overlords.

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[–] political_avacado@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

The Ukraine counter-offensive sure is effective.

[–] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

This became a possibility the moment Prigo started making threats towards government officials. As soon as that happened, and Russia did not recall and disband the group, a rebellion became an eventuality (what mercenary is going to accept execution from a state he is propping up).

I doubt it'll be successful, but it is a huge blow to Russia.

[–] SpacemanZ@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Wagner switching sides was not on my bingo card

[–] Zamboniman@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They didn't switch sides. They created a third side. A Mêlée à Trois.

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[–] innkeeper@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Ukrainian army called ...they need fresh supplies of popcorn...

[–] boilingpenguin@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

If there's one thing I've learned from my history classes it's that power vacuums (or even perceived power vacuums) and the ensuing instability always end well for everyone involved....

/s

[–] andrei_chiffa@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Generally, I don't like to gloat, but I did call that one ~ June 5th over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/140qkwu/destructions_incursions_%C3%A9vacuations_dans_la/jmyndp3/?context=3; in French because it was on r/France).

It actually is much worse than it seems - I did a write up over on Mastodon to explain why and how (https://mastodon.social/@andrei_chiffa/110599724720727202). The TLDR is that cities taken by Wagner mercs will be hard to retake without leveling, all internal protection troops are either tied or were lost in Ukraine, and mercs themselves have nothing to loose and all the revenge to take.

[–] YuYuHunter@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Tu avais raison.

It's very strange how things are going right now. The fact that they are quite effortlessly moving hundreds of kilometers through Russian territory is quite telling.

[–] wet_squid@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While it’s always great to watch enemies turning against each other (Baubert vs MTG!), let‘s not forget that Putin is a mad man with his finger on a nuclear button.

I wish the best for the people living there who will suffer the consequences of a dictator who gets pushed into a corner.

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[–] green_dragon@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

People are tired of this war. Putin wanted to secure food reserves and have an open access sea port for his military; however he wasn't honest as to his reasons why; understandably so. Given this the Russian public doesn't see the actual geopolitical value of the conflict. This was inevitable. If Russia couldn't play nice with the rest of the world as their money mostly comes from oil and gas; which we are moving away from. Let them pay for their crimes.

[–] MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

This could definitely be a powder keg moment in some way.

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