Yet another great opportunity to branch out and try some other RPGs. I switched to Pathfinder 2e at the beginning of this year and it has been so much better than 5e.
this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Same! I don't regret switching one bit. Now that I got back in contact again with the system through Baldurs gate 3, I notice all the flaws it has and can't help but wish it would use another system
So many flaws haha! Like nearly all of the feats in the phb are useless. Or that they hardly even attempted to balance the different character options. As I play BG3 I can't help but wish we had a PF2e video game.
As if most of the feats in pf2e aren't? I enjoy pathfinder for what it is, and there definitely some things I like more than 5e. Pathfinder has more feats, and has more good feats, but also more underwhelming feats in my opinion. How many characters take abberation kinship?
The difference is that pf2e expexts you to have several feats by the time you're even level 4, while 5e expects you to (optionally) have 1.
Pathfinder also uses feats in a very different way from D&D. Having lots of options is good. And it basically forces you to take some mediocre feats to help round out your character and make it hard to minmax perfectly
Yes, I agree. It does seem a little off base to leverage the ratio of good to bad feats as an advantage of the system though, when they both have good and bad feats in what seems like similar proportions.
I disagree. It's not the ratio that's important, but the absolute number of good feats. The bad feats can be safely ignored, and then it becomes a question of how many good feats you have to choose from. Like in BG3, every time I look at the list of feats, unless I'm playing a character that wants SS or GWM, I'm thinking I'd be better off taking ASI. In Pathfinder, the feat selection always feels like an interesting choice, even if there are some bad options I am discounting, there are still plenty of interesting choices for me to make.
To quote the video this post is about, I often see this happen:
"wow, these rules are so robust!" followed by, "wow..... these rules are so.. robust."
Pathfinder is neat, I play in three 2e campaigns. I prefer 5e, and that's okay. Personally, I think the rules get in the way of the fun for pf2e. I still have fun, I would just have more fun in a less rule-heavy game.
I shy away from saying 5e is better, because I know many people who prefer pf2e, just like I and many others prefer 5e, or savage worlds, or shadow dark. Different games will attract different players, and sometimes those players who like different things play together. When this happens, compromise happens in order to play the same game. The hobby is better served by us looking for ways to compromise, rather than divide.
This is 3rd edition thinking, trap options are awful and make the game worse for everyone not following a charop guide
It's not the same as third edition because PF2e has more horizontal scaling than vertical scaling.
Wrath of the Righteous isn't PF2e? I thought it was
WotR is PF1e. I still love the game but holy shit it was a real reminder of how busted PF1e was. I would love a cRPG in PF2e.
Nope. It and kingmaker are based on 1e
But there is a kingmaker module for the 2nd edition of the tabletop game now.
I've certainly found myself sliding into that group of people who feel dirty financially supporting WOTC at this point.
I was writing a book to be published on their site before they threatened to change the terms.
Even though that fell through I don't want to market it through reddit and Twitter any longer. THEN the damned Pinkerton incident happened.
Still want to finish the book and put it out there but when it comes time to jump, it'll be to Pathfinder.
I can't wait for my groups to move to pf2e. Was prepping for a 1 shot where we have a few hundred gold to provision.
Trying to price items in 5e is like pulling teeth. The prices are all over the place, others simply don't have official prices and it's completely nonsensical if they do.
For curiosity I plugged in one of the items in question into the pf2e app and it gave a simple and succinct price list for rarity.
it has been so much better than 5e.
How so?
As a DM, it just feels like the system supports me so much more. Whereas in 5e it often felt like I was fighting against the system to do what I wanted, or else the system just told me to figure shit out for myself.
When I played, it was "advanced edition" and the rules were whatever the DM said they were. It worked fine.
It still works that way, the newest editions just make it easier for new people to get rolling faster. No ruleset will ever make up for a bad DM.
I mean the rules still revolved around dice rolling. thaco and all that.
As an old D&D player, I've been through multiple editions, and I honestly don't get the hate for 5e. It's not needlessly complex as 3 was, and not as brain dead as 4. It's accessible to everyone, with enough complexity for those of us that liked 3. Pathfinder was fine, but trying it again after 5e is like watching extra work just appear on your table.
If you really want a good time, where the system is truly different for the better, then try Star Wars Force and Destiny. Best system around in my opinion.
The dice are a pain to read, but if you use an app it's moot. The system is great otherwise. F&D /Edge of the Empire is really amazing, with the success/failure, advantage/disadvantage, triumph/despair axes giving a TON of opportunity for collaborative story telling.
A good actual-play podcast with this system was Campaign: Star wars from the One Shot network. https://oneshotpodcast.com/
Great history of dnd type ramble video which is also great advice for all the current edition change.
I came into dnd end of advanced 2e and really got into it with 3e. I was there when half my friend group left for wow and the other half didn't like 4e. I went to pf1 back then and to more other systems like shadow run, arkane Kodex, fading suns and the Dark Eye. I came back to dnd 5e late but before pf2e was announced. But I never truly dug 5e. It's a perfectly fine system but I'm not passionate about it. Only recently with the OGL betrayal I jumped ship and went to pf2e which I absolutely love.
It was fun to hear how Matt experienced this era. Changing editions and games isn't all that bad or hard as some people make it out to be. At least from my experience.
I also never understood edition warriors or even system warriors. Everyone should play what they like. Systems are different and some are better suited for certain groups or players than others. All I advocate for is people try a few different systems when they can. Often I find people to be surprised that they like other systems way better and that those rules can do things they never thought a TTRPG could do.
I want a Matt Coville community on Lemmy or Kbin. I guess I can make it on this ttrpg instance I'm on, but I'd prefer if I could get one of their moderators to mod it instead of me lol.
Overall, a good video. I'm definitely opinionated about rpgs and editions of DnD, and don't share his blanket love for each edition, but he's right that the vitriol over edition wars are silly.
I don't really agree with his WoW take; of just, being able to hop from DnD to WoW for a few months to have fun. I hate WoW, from a personal enjoyment level. I don't knock anyone for enjoying it, but I'd rather do just about anything else. My friends jumped onto it on launch in highschool, and I joined them for a week or so, and I genuinely do not see the appeal. I'm not trying to be bitter or anything, so much as saying I am not able to just, go and have fun with WoW, or frankly any MMO I've tried.
But, there's no RPG I've ever touched that I feel that way about. I don't really like 4e for several reasons, but overall, if my group otherwise really wanted to play more of it, I know I could have fun playing or running it. Outside of truly dogshit 'games' like FATAL, I'm sure I could have fun playing just about any RPG, and even a FATAL one-shot could be fun, despite the rules (though, it'd veer awfully close to just laughing at a live-reading of the rules than really 'playing the game')
Still, I have no real interest in 5.5. Frankly, I currently have no real interest in 5e at the moment, though that's more from 'edition fatigue'. Like, I have many complaints about 5e (I'm not sure if you could play a lot of 5e and not notice it's mechanical flaws), but I played it enough to get tired of it, which is a compliment in a lot of ways.
But I love playing new games. I've fallen in love with PF2e recently (though with 2 campaigns hitting level 14-ish, some fatigue is creeping in), and we've giving ICON a run. I'm looking forward to trying Exalted Essence and the new WoD stuff when a rpg slot opens up (running 3 games right now as it is). And I'll probably return to DnD at some point, but nothing from 5.5 feels like it really 'fixes' the issues I have with 5e, or otherwise 'sparks excitement' in me. But also, it looks fine.
Though, if the really do centralize it to an official platform, I definitely won't be touching it; I hate DnD beyond as it is, and how there are no PDFs for the 5e books (officially), which is a bummer but able to be worked around. And, even if they try to centralize 5.5 digitally, there will definitely still be books, and probably still be PDFs able to be found, though I'll probably want to avoid the edition on principle anyway if that is the case.