this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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[–] Rottcodd@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That's a popular conception of an-caps, but it's not accurate at all, since corporations are a legal fiction that cannot exist without a government to define them and grant them the convenient combination of individual rights without individual liability that are key to their success.

Which is not meant to in any way defend anarcho-capitalism, which is a profoundly irrational ideology - just not for the reason implied by the meme.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

since corporations are a legal fiction that cannot exist without a government

The reason anar caps is feudalism is because without a government to maintain a monopoly on violence, the corporation hires it's own violence thereby becoming a government in the same way a king is a government.

[–] Rottcodd@lemmy.world -3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Except that governments don't have a monopoly on violence - far from it. Governments have a monopoly on (nominally) legitimate violence.

And in fact, that's an awful lot of why governments establish and maintain laws - to reinforce the distinction between the (nominally) illegitimate violence of "criminals" and their own (nominally ) legitimate violence.

Without a government, that contrived distinction vanishes - all violence becomes more or less equally (il)legitimate.

Now it is the case that the current concentrations of resources that corporations hold would give them an advantage in a power vacuum, but their need to maintain their advantage would sharply limit the amount they'd be willing to invest in governing people, and thus their ability to do so successfully, particularly since they'd almost certainly not possess the presumption of legitimacy that governments generally possess, so would have ongoing expeditures just to maintain their hold, before they could even do anything with it.

I think it's most likely that they'd lay claim to specific parcels of land that would be fenced and gated and patrolled, and in addition to their own facilities, would likely include some version of a traditional "company town," and they'd mostly ignore, other than to deal with and prey upon, everyone outside of their compounds.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Governments have a monopoly on (nominally) legitimate violence.

That's what monopoly means. Just because Coca-Cola holds a monopoly on importing cocaine plants doesn't mean no other organization is capable of importing cocaine. They just can't do it legally.

[–] TootSweet@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

corporations are a legal fiction that cannot exist without a government

Yeah, but... do an-caps know that though?

Sure there may be some, but I suspect there are more out there than you imagine who are just like "capitalism is the natural state of man and will persist forever" and either don't consider at all what happens without a government if people break the (quite arbitrary, but they don't think that) rules of capitalism or believe whole heartedly that government regulation is the only reason why either guns, private arbitration, or smart contracts haven't already solved that problem.

[–] Rottcodd@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At this point, I honestly have no idea what an-caps think. I presume that most of them don't think.

I actually stopped paying attention years ago, and before that I was only paying attention to argue with them.

They had some valid points early on, and actually including the observation that the unregulated exchange of goods and services is a natural human behavior. They just went wrong pretty much immediately after that observation, when they conflated that unregulated exchange with "capitalism" and expanded it out to the stipulated system to which each and all would be necessarily subject. They could never seem to wrap their heads around the fact that that position necessitated the institutionalization of authority, even though they spent most of their time and effort trying to dream up "anarchist" states with "anarchist" laws that would be enforced by "anarchist" police and an "anarchist" legal system. That and spluttering self-righteously about how it all didn't actually count as a state because blah blah blah.

But in the wake of the Great Overton Window Shift of 2009, when the Republicans co-opted the Tea Party protests and turned them into a traveling carnival of hate, a bunch of conservatives started identifying as libertarians, so a bunch of libertarians started identifying as an-caps, and the intellectual level of an-caps went from amusingly mediocre to frustratingly low.

Presuming that that trend has held (and judging by the rest of right-wing politics, it's likely that it's not only held, but accelerated), yeah - I would presume that most don't even know.

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

Ancaps don't really know what they think, either, because they have no actual political philosophy. The only reason for the project is to try to do to the word "anarchism" what they did to the word "libertarian".

[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

Yup. They do. Not only are corps legal fictions, they're supported by IP law and a whole host of regulations that allow them to grow to such massive sizes. Limited liability is cancer.

and either don't consider at all what happens without a government if people break the (quite arbitrary, but they don't think that) rules of capitalism

Of course it's considered, and there are a handful of possible solutions.

believe whole heartedly that government regulation is the only reason why either guns, private arbitration, or smart contracts haven't already solved that problem.

Trade is a technology. Force freezing human economic interactions into rigid capitalist guidelines prevents actual development. Some people would just like to see problems solved without violence.

[–] nightwatch_admin@feddit.nl 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

ancap is just proto-feudalism by another name

*change my mind

[–] rephlekt2718@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Is this junji itos frankenstein?

[–] Ramenator@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] rephlekt2718@kbin.social 3 points 11 months ago

Gotta read that, just finished the actual novel and I love some of junji itos work, this should be great