bringing the vegan struggle session over from hexbear to lemmy, lets fucking go
carnists gtfo
this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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Nah I'm good I think I'll stay. Chicken is pretty delicious and KFC slaps.
The reasoning for it is that male chickens are near worthless. They fight and injure themselves and others. They don't taste very good and most people won't eat them therefore they aren't worth the feed to fatten them up for slaughter.
The solution is to kill them as quickly and humanely as possible. The shredder looks bad but they die instantly, no pain, no suffering. Their bodies are then used in products such as dog and cat food.
For others reading that, I'd recommend they look at what it actually looks like before going to the conclusion that it's humane
I don't like the word (in-)humane. Etymologically human and humane have the same origin (big surprise). But, humane got purportedly human characteristics attached to it and now means something different. Though, for example, they translate to the same word in German (menschlich). I'd like to suggest a little thought experiment:
Whenever somebody says "X is humane.", ask yourself: Would it exist, if humans did not exist? If the answer is yes, humane is not the right word.
Whenever somebody says "X is inhumane.", ask yourself: Would it exist if humans didn't exist? If the answer is no, inhumane is a very poor and misleading choice of word. And the opposite is the case: Evedently, X is very human; Hence humane is a poor fit too, because there is obviously a conflict in meaning.
Example: Building machines to shred millions of chicks is inhumane. Well, without humans such machines wouldn't exist, hence inhumane is a poor choice of word. Humane can't be a good choice either, because of the conflicting meaning.
Bonus: Here, have some synonyms for in-/humane, that almost always are a better fit, whatever the context:
-
humane
- compassionate
- benevolent
- kind
-
inhumane
- ruthless
- merciless
- cruel
What you are describing is precisely why the animal agriculture industry uses the word humane and why we should point out the hypocrisy. Very few people would agree if they said that what they were doing is "benevolent", "kind", or "compassionate". It would be pretty obvious that that's not the case. But by using a word like humane which our culture has muddied they can get away with it. That's why we have to call them out when they talk about "humane" methods of slaughter or that the way they treat the animals is "humane".
I mean, they wouldn't even be wrong if they said it was human. And by extention, one could argue that it was humane, when applying the origional meaning of the word. In my opinion people would be just as incorrect by saying what they were doing was inhumane. My beef here really is with the words humane and inhumane. The way people use these words, is perpetuating a lie about human character. Both words shouldn't be used at all. Genocide is (in)human(e), slavery is (in)human(e), *ism is (in)human(e), ..., pretty much every form of cruelty present on planet Earth is (in)human(e)*.
*) to be read as human, humane, inhumane (excluding inhuman)
If you use this way of thinking then the words humane and inhumane completely lose all meaning and the conversation is completely pointless. Regardless of the etymology of a word, what matters is the way that they are being used presently by society. And presently, no one uses the word "humane" to mean "something that a human does" because there is simply no reason to have a word that means that. It conveys very little useful information. And when the animal agriculture industry says that its practices are "humane" they are not saying "a human is performing these actions". They are very clearly trying to imply that what they are doing is "good" without actually saying it because of how ridiculous it would sound.
I agree with the implying-part. But it is what is human, not what a human does. And the way humane and inhumane are commonly used are a fiction. Humane, is just arbitrary "good" "human" characteristics. For example compassion; We know, that at least some animals are compassionate too, so it is not something special only humans have. The in in inhumane implies, that the associated characteristics are non-human. Yet, every thing ever referred to as inhumane is absolutely human. Both words, when looking at them closely, just don't make any sense, and I would go as far as saying are semantically incorrect. And humane as a synonym for human still would be as useful as the word human, just without any fictional connotation. The human brain, human society, the human experience, ... If you want to continue this dialogue, please leave the topic of the post out of it. My critique of the word in-/humane was/is general. The post was just my discussion starter because it contained the word humane. Nothing more, nothing less.
In order to use language for communication humans have agreed upon definitions for certain sounds when used in combination. We call these combinations of sounds "words". Words only have meaning based on the way that people use and understand them. Dictionaries are not there to tell people what a word means, otherwise there would only ever need to be one dictionary made for any language ever and if anyone uses a word differently they are just wrong. Dictionaries are an attempt by a person or group of people to take a snapshot of the way that a society is using a particular set of words. They are documenting the meaning of words, not prescribing them. That's also why you will see slang appear in the dictionary as it is updated.
I understand that what you are trying to argue is that the common definition of humane is bad, but unfortunately that's just not how words work. The word humane has an agreed upon definition based on the way that society is currently using it and your definition explicitly goes against that. In a debate, one can, and should, argue semantics in cases where the two parties do not agree on the definitions of words until they do reach an agreement. And in that small scale, those two parties can agree upon whatever definition they want and as long as they both understand what each other means, they can communicate effectively. But that is not what is happening when someone is addressing a general audience. In that case you have to assume that the broadly accepted definition of the word is the one being used.
My critique of the word in-/humane was/is general.
So what is your suggestion? The word humane is erased from the English language entirely in favor of the synonyms that you listed initially? I don't see how that will change anything since people are using the word to mean the same thing as those synonyms already. I think your issue is just with the fact that you don't like the way that people are using it based on etymology alone which is meaningless. I suppose you also take issue with the word astronaut because they aren't literally "space sailors" and the etymology traces back to the latin words for space and sailor (astro: like astronomer - naut: like nautical)?
ETA: and to be clear, I used the word does and not is because "humane" in that case was describing an action. "Humane" can be both an adjective and an adverb.
I'll ignore the obvious boilerplate (first paragraph). TL;DR: Yes, I'd suggest removing the use of in-/humane completely (same for the German counterpart un-/menschlich). But not because I think the definition is bad. That argument could also be made: It really is an empty word that people attach any meaning to that fits their current purpose. But that's really not my argument. It seems you're familiar with syntax vs semantics, so I'll omit that wall of text. But, one example:
The elephant eats the peanut.
The peanut eats the elephant.
Both phrases are syntactically correct but the second is semantically incorrect. A peanut cannot eat an elephant. It's the same with at least both words, humane and inhumane, in tandem. They are semantically incorrect. Humane denotes a set of human characteristics (yet, it is a real subset). The in in inhumane implies there is no intersection with the set of human characteristics. Yet, everything labeled as inhumane is part of the set of human chracteristics. The in in inhumane also implies it is the opposite of humane, which makes no sense if they are both subsets of the same set. No matter how you turn it, both terms are logical contradictions. And that's also why (imho), whenever they are used (at least most of the time), the statements containing them are nonsense.
It's not boilerplate. If you want to argue semantics that is the heart of the conversation. If we can't agree on how things are defined then we cannot begin discussion on specific definitions. Languages evolve over time and if we aren't in agreement about that then there is no point in debating semantics.
To the point in your second paragraph, I would argue that we attach humane to a subset of characteristics that we view as desirable for a human to have and inhumane as undesirable characteristics for a human to have. The words have nothing to do with what characteristics actually do belong to humans. It is nonsensical to even talk about a subset of characteristics that belong to humanity as a whole since every individual is different and can display various characteristics. You can also view it from the lens of inhumane being another way of saying "your actions are so reprehensible that I have a hard time viewing you as a human". We hold ourselves to a higher standard than the rest of the animal kingdom because of our ability to reason. We have a higher moral agency. If you do something like murder and you know it is wrong you aren't acting in a way that strives towards the ideal of what being a human is that we have created as a society. By calling that person or their actions inhumane you aren't literally saying that they aren't a human or that a human can't perform those actions. Obviously they are and they can. I have literally never heard anyone try to argue that the word "humane" means or should mean the same thing as "human" and "inhumane" means or should mean the same thing as "not human".
That's actually illegal in Germany since 2019 or so. We now have egg scanners that can determine the embryo's sex early on and destroy the rooster eggs.
Unfortunately, it does not scale rather well to the high demand in other countries like the US
They have not yet tried to sell the technology to the US egg industry but, even if they did, the volume it can handle is currently too low for this technology to be used to get rid of chick culling across the board.
There's also evidence to suggest it might not be early enough and that they might still be able to feel pain at that point
One issue that complicates these efforts is the difficult-to-answer question of when an embryo becomes a chick. Some researchers say day seven is when chick embryos can begin to experience pain. If that’s right, sexing the eggs eight to 10 days after incubation as Respeggt does, and 14 days as Agri-AT does, may still end up inflicting pain on the embryo, which could be trading one animal welfare problem — culling — for another
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22374193/eggs-chickens-animal-welfare-culling
Is this r/peta or is it memes?
Can it be both
No, PETA is a horrible organization. I would go as far as to say they very well might be the definition of virtue signalling. They literally do everything they supposedly claim to stand against.
I meant the post was both a meme and PETA like
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