Everyone talks about buying Monero, but what is better than buying money with money? With Monero, we have an incredible opportunity to build parallel economies that can empower the individual, and able businesses should create opportunities that allow willing participants to earn Monero, independently of the state.

As big Monero supporters, it is why we introduced the AriaVPN Referral Program and want to invite the community to check out our proposal and consider participating. We seek influencers and website owners who can help us promote our VPN service in exchange for a 30% sales commission. Each time someone buys a VPN plan via your referral link, you'll receive 30% of the value of the plan, have to option to redeem your balance at any time, and get paid within 24 hours.

https://ariavpn.net

Besides offering the opportunity to earn, as a new VPN service provider we hope we can become the community choice for those who regularly use VPN services. Please hit me up if you have any questions or feedback, and thanks for stopping by and checking us out!

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[–] Saki@monero.town 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

If you want us to join your Referral Program, explain why one wants to recommend your VPN, why one wants to use it, how it is different from generally more trusted other VPNs.

You’re only repeating, “Advertise us, and we’ll pay. Attractive, isn’t it?” No, it isn’t. We refuse to advertise a random service we can’t trust, with zero track record, even if you pay.

The number one sales point of your VPN is “We pay if you advertise it”? Is that the “best thing” about your VPN?

Choosing the VPN That's Right for You | Surveillance Self-Defense - EFF

Monero.town is a tiny Lemmy instance, only having like 20 (?) active users. Active users know each other more or less. Naturally we say “we” meaning fellow users.

But kuno.anne.com was being useful. Though ad-supported by an iffy company—big banner ads—, maybe any sponsor is better than no sponsors; although we could start our own similar platform, community-supported rather than supported by a sketchy company. Kuno was a bit like a Bait-and-Switch scam, initially pretending to be a clean, great, passion project. I felt betrayed. You’re using Monero to make a false impression that your service is equally idealistic.
You may be a good person. It might be just miscommunication. We’ll see… If you’re a sales person, though, be more professional; avoid saying unprofessional, rude things, even if you disagree. You’re talking to potential customers, potential affiliates.

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

AriaVPN is a raw, OpenVPN-based service, a start-up with 4 locations so far, allowing to connect up to 4 devices. We don't have any fancy apps yet set aside, it's a VPN like any other. The job of a VPN provider is to deliver a reliable service & connection, a box of chocolate, and a kiss don't come with it. If you'd like to try our service, you can access our site via a Tor exit node and go for the daily plan, you can underpay that and get a 2-hour plan for as little as 2 cents. You can read our marketing narrative to find out what you may want to know and read our policies to see if our service is right for you. We're well aware that a no-logs policy is impossible to prove for anyone and that accredited audits only give a snapshot at one particular point in time. With that in mind, we went the extra mile to ensure our client's privacy by implementing a zero-knowledge architecture and open data transparency. This means we don't collect any personal data and that every client has the option to download and examine a full copy of the data we collect so our website can deliver its functions and service. We also allow for deleting payment data and plan data as a whole, and we allow for port forwarding. We use small to medium-sized hosting providers and ISPs that we carefully select and negotiate exemptions to their terms of service if applicable. We do this to ensure continuous service and to know that they are not in the business of logging traffic. Whoever trusts a well-established VPN service, also trusts big hosting/ISP players most VPN providers use. Consider if a provider that has, for example, a 120k volume of monthly organic traffic and needs to make in excess of 260k+ monthly sales @ $5 per month to begin to cover their basic operating cost is trustworthy and whether there's a hidden agenda.

As for you, you seem harboring the impression that I should be somehow gaining your trust. I'm not here to sell. I leave that to others. I developed the service from A-Z, and came by with an offer to see if I might pique some interest and perhaps have a friendly chat, which isn't possible when a narcissist shows up. Every other sentence you spawn is an attack on my integrity and the integrity of our business (FYI we're not a company), and dissing us for not conforming with your worldview, and the rest is aiming at making yourself look good by pretending to be nice. The likes of you are dangerous and need to be exposed, and if that might lose me a customer or two I will not lose sleep over it. Your unsolicited advice isn't feedback only a twisted idea of how we should be running our business or shouldn't, misleading the audience with your almost-knowledge. For example, Cloudflare doesn't block Tor traffic. They provide their clients with the option to do so. Small yet rudimentary distinction. I won't bother with addressing the excess of baseless assumptions and attacks, just because a princess feels betrayed by a genuine ad and disrespects the endless work of others in the sorry process. So as for Kuno, I encourage you to stop crying and run an instance yourself if you possibly can, the more the merrier.

[–] Asudox@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Mullvad is cheaper

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Yes and no, and I'm tired of hearing Mullvad from Monero folks. They just have a different pricing strategy, which is only cheaper for shorter-term plans. The prices you see at AriaVPN are for new customers, but there are discount coupons available up to 30%, our loyal customers get up to 30% discounts on plan extensions, and we already match Mullvad on long-term price plans without discounts. If you only had any idea how much they pay for servers vs what's their organic traffic, at the top of which they claim to pay for targeted advertising, it might make you question how can they possibly make a profit, and whether there's a hidden business model. At least I do, and I don't like what I see.

[–] dukethorion@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Since when does Mullvad offer new customers lower prices? Pretty sure it's always one price.

Are you thinking of ProtonVPN, which does offer discounts for new users?

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I'm talking about AriaVPN, not Mullvad. And yes, they have flat pricing strategy and they don't do discounts. There are many providers and each do it differently, so do we :)

[–] dukethorion@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I misread your sentence about "the price you see is for new customers" because the previous sentence was about Mullvad with no distinction afterwards. Thanks for the clarification.

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town 0 points 11 months ago

Thanks, sorry, I see the ambiguity, could have been clearer (already edited).

[–] Saki@monero.town 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

kuno.anne.media started hosting this VPN’s ads, since around the end of October, 2023, also blatantly calling /cdn-cgi/apps/head/ (trying to installing some CF app(s) via .js if your browser is lenient).

Not sure which is better: zero-fee idealism + ad-supported (implicitly selling some info) vs. low-fee realism + ad-free

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

First of all, AriaVPN is a brand of Anne Media and when we became host to Kuno, it was pre-agreed that instead of asking for donations that'd cover the cost of hosting and additional development, we'll simply add our ad for our VPN service so we can reach out to the community. We don't run external ads. Secondly, the script you see and block facilitates automated translations, which we added on request. So thank you for your assessment.

[–] Saki@monero.town 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You’re basically using Kuno to attract potential VPN customers? That could be an interesting, new business model. Some marginalized people can get humanitarian help via Monero, while these supporters (Monero users) are likely to be interested in privacy, so they might buy your VPN service. In theory, this could be win-win-win :) A good potential.

On the other hand, it’s rather obvious that you’re not one of us, not someone privacy-aware. You can read some discussions about Kuno here:

Kuno XMR Fundraising Platform is Down - We need a fundraiser to get this on a proper hosting provider ASAP https://monero.town/post/921314
Re: Support Ashley's Laptop/Computer Fundraiser https://monero.town/post/737813

Use Cloudflare (while saying “We protect your privacy”), and you’ll immediately lose 50% of trust. Additionally, the script via CDN in question is for Google Translation… 😓 Like this, perhaps a typical privacy advocate doesn’t even consider your VPN. The worst part is, you’re not even able to see the problem… If you were a privacy advocate, Google wouldn’t be even an option to begin with. (If you’re wondering why, perhaps you shouldn’t do VPN business.) How about LibreTranslate, for example?

Get rid of anything Google, and stop using CF (MitM) so that you might be able to rebuild credibility. Make everything Tor-friendly. That’s a minimum requirement for the “privacy industry”: even something rather iffy like Proton has a token onion. I also suggest you be transparent about Kuno. Make it clear it’s zero-fee because it’s there as a promotion for your VPN business. Such transparency doesn’t make you look bad. On the contrary, people may trust you more, if the reason why it’s zero-fee is not hidden and people behind it are honest.

Kuno could be a great website—it has already helped a few people. Some of us were even saying (thinking) that we were willing to make donation to Kuno itself (not buying your VPN, but we could send you XMR anyway “for free”). Still, I hope Kuno will become somewhat more privacy-aware, so that a typical Monero user feels comfortable with using it. Thank you for reading.

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

In essence, ads serve a brand awareness purpose, but what a giant stretch to call an ad a business model. Although it would be fantastic if the core of the Monero community saw the value & helped, AriaVPN service isn't specifically aimed at the typical Monero user. Our target market is the new user or crypto-aware/curious user.

As for privacy, there are different levels, and I'm sure not one of 'you', i.e. those excessively paranoid. To be in our field of business, there is no way of avoiding revealing our identities, so I can't even begin to mind using Cloudflare as one of our service providers. On the contrary, they are a top-grade service, and using them doesn't compromise anyone's privacy except ours. Those fussy about suspected CF proxy logs can use VPN/Tor when accessing the site. Plus, we are the main third party. If someone posts a listing on Kuno asking for funding to cause harm or injury, I'll remove it before they can say Cloudflare. These folks can do that shit on the darknet where and if the admins allow for it.

Then, I find the downtime/crackpot drama pathetic. This had been covered and discussed at length and ended up in that crackpot losing his 5 XMR bet and his X account, and anyone who believes we are not a reliable host to Kuno can feel free to grab & run an instance themselves and do a better job.

Lastly, you get no argument from me GT isn't a great choice. Hence we don't use it for AriaVPN but as for Kuno, that's a very different story. Right now, we don't have the luxury of time and resources to give Kuno the full dedication it may deserve, and as for donations, appreciate the thought, but that's not my style. The chance that a community donations-based model would cover real expenses we incur beyond mere hosting is nill. So perhaps instead of giving unsolicited advice, tho not overly out of place, you might consider contributing your skills to the common goal? We sure have plans and could use the expert hand.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Bold of you to starting insulting "us" in our forum where "we" are collectively giving you actionable feedback.

The monero community here is small, but we're very vocal, so obviously you're here trying to get us to get on board with the service and advocate for it. Which we can be. Insulting us however is going to diminish our zeal in promoting your service over other known good services such as Mullvad.

Though I would suggest you look at privacy guides, getting listed there as a well-respected VPN provider could be a huge boon for you

[–] Saki@monero.town 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

That CF may block Tor indiscriminately is a well-known fact acknowledged by CF itself. Calling that “paranoia” only shows they’re not familiar with online privacy. They say, “Those fussy about suspected CF proxy logs can use VPN/Tor when accessing the site.” No one here is talking about “suspected CF proxy logs”. When Tor is blocked, “use Tor!” couldn’t be a solution.

Maybe the person was not a fool, just not too good at English, can’t fully understand what they read. Some of their first posts were ambiguous & confusing too. Nevertheless, they don’t seem to be a good salesperson, being rude to potential customers, not having some basic knowledge about online privacy.

Their worst move was, the childish assumption that we might be willing to cooperate with them if they paid a small rebate to us in XMR (they might be imagining that we love XMR so much we’d do anything if they pay XMR). Unfortunately for them, many users here are critical thinkers… What they should have tried is, explaining how their service was different (if it is different), why one may want to use it. The title “A great opportunity to earn Monero has landed!” is, frankly, pathetic.

Denied: Too Stupid

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah we're not the Right audience for monero rebates. But that will appeal to some people. And that's fine. That can be part of their pitch.

Safing, Mullvad, proton are the services peer competitors.

Now if they advertise, and appeal to people to make crypto rebates, that could be interesting. We're not the right demographic for that, but that's a sales pitch that could work.

For a VPN provider, who's accepting monero, they need to focus on the privacy aspects. Make it clear where their servers are, make it clear how to download a wire guard or open VPN configuration without using their client. Those are important things for the privacy community.

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town -1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If you guys feel personally offended by my words, then I must have hit the spot. Let's make one thing clear. You speak for yourself and not for the community as a whole. While I acknowledge there is always room for improvement, and we're working on it 24/7, and no one is perfect, I find it difficult to care about the subjective opinions of people who make general statements on behalf of everyone else whom they think they represent (wow), and whether knowingly or not, undermining the genuine efforts of others. May I ask, how do you contribute to the community besides shitposting? Your trouble making a distinction between a referral program and a rebate is a clear indication that you don't have a clue what you are on about. We've simply dedicated 30% of our turnover to marketing, just like many other VPN providers do, and that's not a small feat. But we're the first of the kind providing a unique opportunity to earn Monero and also unprecedently offering daily payouts to prove the point, so oh boy, yes, the opportunity has landed. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, and I appreciate it's not for everyone, but let me reiterate. It's arrogant and deluded of you to assume that you represent 'we', as the entire community. Anyway, for whatever it's worth, we've taken your feedback under advisement. Thank you very much for your contribution.

[–] RealPappenheimer@monero.town 2 points 11 months ago

Thank you, good luck, goodbye.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Your comments often use direct personal insults.

Excessively paranoid, shit poster, no clue, arrogant, deluded....

Nobody in this thread has used personal insults against you. When rhetoric devolves into insults, your position is weak.

Again we're just trying to provide you actionable feedback, which you appear to want, and also reject. I have no animosity towards your business, or even your business model, I wish you the best success. Indicating that insulting your potential customers is not a good look, is just common sense, and should not make me the focus of your scorn. Your effort is misplaced

[–] AriaVPN@monero.town -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yes, by intent. I always speak my mind and don't sugarcoat things. I simply provided you guys with a relevant response to your feedback so that you can understand why some of it is misplaced and goes way beyond just being constructive criticism. The audience can decide whether my responses are valid or not. Tho, I haven't rejected your feedback. Saying we’ve taken your feedback under advisement, means exactly what it says. We've already taken some steps in the direction you might like, but there's a gap between the target audience we aim at and the group of people you refer to as "we". We love Monero perhaps more than we should, and the aim (business aside) is to help Monero to reach out beyond "we". I appreciate that you wish us success, thank you.