cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/8181688
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'Tankies' (for the lack of a better word) have been against communism throughout history. It's disingenuous to assume they could be capable of unity
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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Anarchism
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I always wonder what the political left would look like in different European countries in the 20th century had it not been for the influence of the Soviet Union. Soviet influence ran, in my humble opinion, like poison through the veins of European socialist organisations. It seems to me like successful left wing mobilization is directly correlated with a relative lack of Soviet influence.
Yeah. They executed a lot of leftist thinking and set back progress for decades. And inadvertently were the reason for the red scare still deeply ingrained in many
Even ignoring the executions, they set the party agenda for a lot of European communist parties, struck down independent local organization (which were more in line with traditional communitarian ideas), and made the political left wing something that could more legitimately be written off as a foreign influence rather than a legitimate political movement because to an uncanny degree, that was just what it was.
This reflects my impression in countries like France - in Spain they of course took it to another level.
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Just call em authoritarians. That's what they are
Hexbear comes here to be the debate bros they try so hard to dunk on. They are dying looking for just one little morsel of dunk. Not a good showing, not a leftist unity moment lmao
They're starving, man
You know, there'd be a whole lot less gish-galloping propaganda in the comments here if you were to defederate hexbear. Just sayin. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hexbears don't bother me, but I seem to be bothering them quite a lot
Just like with fascists though, it's better not to let them propagandize, even if you aren't personally triggered by it.
Eh half of them are just making asses out of themselves by going full mask off. I don't think they've had a great showing.
The quality of their arguments doesn't really matter though, nor does it matter whether they're able to convince a majority of people. What matters is that they can reach the few people that will find their overall presentation intriguing enough to merit further investigation, and then pull those people down the rabbit hole. It's the same strategy that fascists use, just red-flavored instead of brown.
It also makes the space overall less appealing to your actual target audience, which is a cardinal sin of online community management.
...gonna pop in and agree, dbzer0 may have got carried away with engaging with them.
Hexbear also doesn't have downvotes, their instance heavily emphasizes commenting to show the quality of a post, rather than vote, in most cases anyways.
But they do definitely rally behind their own and do both, as seen in this thread. It's like kicking a hornets nest.
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Meme has been ammended to not be racist. Sorry about not paying close enough attention to it. I've been having issues with my object storage and I've been trying to fix it. In the end I decided to rehost on imgur.
Neat, now we can see how long before/if federated instances update that.
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They create such lame excuses to defend things like Trotsky assassination it's awful
What an impressive turn out. Looks like they're all using the exact same "arguments" (a combination of manipulation techniques and logical fallicies) that they use every single time.
It's worrying how much of a presence these people create in online discourse because they come out in full force, dominating and suppressing anyone or thing that challenges them. There is no healthy debate.
But i suppose it all makes perfect sense; these people glorify the state, single party rule and dictatorship. Their behavior is a logical result of these beliefs
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holy shit
One upside is that the flaming comments is less lethal than bullets. Of course if they start kicking in doors because of comments we have a different problem.
What in the actual fuck is going on in here?
I guess you could say it's...
Anarchy?
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What's a Tankie?
EDIT: The range of definitions below is interesting
A slang term for authoritarian communists.
A white kid from North America who simps for Russia and China despite never having set foot in either
Tankies are not at all a uniquely US phenomenon
When it describes 95% of the ones I've come into contact with, that's what I'll describe them as
Outstanding comments as always, Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug.
To give a nore detailed answer... Tankies are "lefties" who have failed to realize one or two extremely important facts about the world:
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"Strong men" are not a good thing. No matter your political opinion, using force to get it is literally incompatible with many leftist teachings. The very act of violent rebellion requires the use of force that many believe a government shoudn't have. Thusly, any violent revolution stands a STRONG chance of being shunned by those who do not want a government with sanctioned violence. Getting a "leftist" government through basic violence WILL result in a fascist government. Always.
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Strong men cannot be allowed unjust power no matter how just they are. They cannot be allowed power because despite how cliche the expression, "power corrupts", it is wholly true. It doesn't matter how good a particular ruler is. If the levers of power exist, someone WILL pull them very bad directions.
Basically... Tankies are leftists who have not or cannot think through how authority is actually bad to allow to exist in any unchecked form. They think a ruler who does good things is good, when most leftists SHOULD be answering they don't want any ruler.
The horseshoe theory exists because of tankies and extremists. If you want leftist policy but want to achieve it through uncouth means, that's definitionally authoritarian in nature for many answers, and authoritarian answers should be antithetical to the left. Even forcing a utopia still creates a coercive government.
Thusly, any violent revolution stands a STRONG chance of being shunned by those who do not want a government with sanctioned violence.
I disagree with this part. Violent revolution—violent opposition to our oppression—is absolutely necessary. However, turning it on ourselves—that is, in any direction other than that which opposes authority—is a recipe for disaster as you say.
It's not violence itself that is the problem. There are literally always forms of violence sanctioned by every single political philosophy (including absolute pacifism/non-violence, which sanctions violence performed by the state even if its subscribers often don't realize this). The question is how and when that violence is performed and by whom, and the anarchist/non-authoritarian answer is that it must only be in the struggle for liberation, not the fight to gain and maintain power over others.
I absolutely agree. Peaceful protest has never brought meaningful or lasting change. Violent uprisings are the only way to reduce unjust hierarchy, because those in power have never given it up willingly.
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Indeed it is not violence itself, otherwise even getting arrested would be more contentious of a topic. Though the point I'm trying to point at is: Doing so in a revolution is COMPLETELY opening up the Paradox of Tolerance.
My point is not that violence cannot be used. It's that you step fully in to the realm of the Paradox of Tolerance, where less intelligent or less informed people can and DO misconstrue whos violence is just and whos is not.
The point is to aim for the least possible violence so there is far less noise for people to sort through. It is a warning about how a well intentioned revolution can (and has many times in the past) turn in to just another fascistic movement.
I am NOT saying violence is useless. I'm saying don't be an ignorant hick and think a gun is the answer to every problem. It very often can make situations much worse than they have to be.
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Someone that thinks people are cool but states are cooler
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Just wanted to come in and say good job op, you managed to make a very entertaining thread. Big ups
This will stand as a great monument to Hexbear
"Tanks"
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