If only people could understand the basic concept that hating a government is possible without hating the people living there.
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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One of my favorite quotes:
If I have one message to give to the secular American people, it’s that the world is not divided into countries. The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don’t know each other, but we talk together and we understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same. - Marjane Satrapi
Different situation, same idea.
Israel claims to be a democracy and also commits genocide.
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Democracy and genocide are separate
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Israel is by definition obviously not committing genocide, the Palestinians population is only going up
Exactly. Hamas is a monstrous organization based on the most corrupted religious fundamentalism, but I have nothing but love for the people of Gaza.
Reminder that Hamas is widely supported by most Palestinians
53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is "most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people"
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
A reminder:
Palestinians are awesome!
The genocidal regime that rules over Gaza who murder innocent people while blocking Palestinian democracy is NOT AWESOME!
What about all the Palestinians internationally that are currently celebrating that massacre?
Yeah those guys are on the side of the genocidal regime.
Palestinian fascism.... Hamas won the election with just a plurality of the vote then permanently suspended elections ever since. Same old story. Odd how it's never talked about. I suppose Palestinian fascism complicates support for Palestine for the left so they pretend it isn't a thing, while it also complicates the "them people are all terrorists" narrative ofr the right.
It's hard to determine the popularity of Hamas now (there has been an election in over a decade and a half) in the Palestinian population. There is obviously support of the genocidal maniacs in the Palestinian populace because of those celebrations. The people that support Hamas have either been duped by their propaganda or are just straight up evil, or both.
Obviously not awesome but easy to explain. I assume that being Palestinian gives them a certain - very one sided perspective on the conflict because they probably perceive Israel as an evil colonialist terror State that has been oppressing and killing them for decades.
Probably the same as all the Jewish and Christian people internationally that celebrate and monetarily and militarily support the Israeli apartheid regime even as they would kill innocents, cut off water and supplies, and kill journalists. ESH.
Palestinian citizens are given supplies by the IDF. I always found accusations of cutting supplies to citizens very uninformed.
People also conveniently ignore that the Palestinians have been getting Israeli and international aid for decades that was supposed to go into building infrastructure like power plants and water treatment facilities. Instead the money went straight into the pockets of the Fatah/PLO and Israel up to this very day has been supplying power and water to Gaza and West Bank. The Palestinian leadership was corrupt as fuck.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/
In November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to obtain. Palestinians living under Israel’s military occupation continue to suffer the devastating consequences of this order until today. They are unable to drill new water wells, install pumps or deepen existing wells, in addition to being denied access to the Jordan River and fresh water springs. Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. As a result, some 180 Palestinian communities in rural areas in the occupied West Bank have no access to running water, according to OCHA. Even in towns and villages which are connected to the water network, the taps often run dry.
[...]
In Gaza, some 90-95 per cent of the water supply is contaminated and unfit for human consumption. Israel does not allow water to be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza, and Gaza’s only fresh water resource, the Coastal Aquifer, is insufficient for the needs of the population and is being increasingly depleted by over-extraction and contaminated by sewage and seawater infiltration.
The resulting disparity in access to water between Israelis and Palestinians is truly staggering. Water consumption by Israelis is at least four times that of Palestinians living in the OPT. Palestinians consume on average 73 litres of water a day per person, which is well below the World Health Organization’s (WHO) recommended daily minimum of 100 litres per capita. In many herding communities in the West Bank, the water consumption for thousands of Palestinians is as low as 20 litres per person a day, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). By contrast, an average Israeli consumes approximately 300 litres of water a day.
Try being gay or trans in Gaza. And see how awesome cool 😎 the Palestinians are.
Try being a Palestinian in Gaza and see how awesome and cool Israel is. Being pro gay doesn't change who's the oppressor and who is oppressed.
We gay people must provide the palestinians with clean drinking water, and this will change hearts and minds 🏳️⚧️🙆♀️
No it won't. You'll be stoned for being gay just the same.
I agree in general, but what an image choice for the Jewish people. Hassidics are far far less awesome and far far more right wing themselves.
Yeah, it's like picturing a Christian man wearing a maga hat, camo pants and a wifebeater he justifies the name of, surrounded by a fearfully obedient family. Like "Christian people are awesome!"
Hasidics consider the average conservative "too liberal".
Don't forget the forced evictions, but this is worse don't get me wrong
Religions suck. They're the root of all problems.
They aren't the root, but they're a strong enabler
A lot of the times they are precisely the root
Are they the root, or are they a justification? Seems like a pretty reductive take, to be honest.
Wars have been occurring for a long time, and generally a desire for resources (including control over people) is a leading cause. Religion is an easy thing to use to get people to lay their lives on the line for you if they already have that belief. Equally it's an easy scapegoat for anti-religious people to blame wars on as well.
This conflict isn't just about religion. If it was then Israel's neighbours probably would have got involved as well.
Conflating Zionism and Judaism is anti-Semitism. Jewish people are overwhelmingly against the settler colonialist apartheid regime of Israel.
The Palestinian people were screwed over when the Arab nations invaded Israel and lost badly. They need to make restitution by making Palestinians citizens.
haven't they determined that most Israeli Jewish folk are genetically just european? like one of their ancestors chose to convert
Im seing a bunch of things about israel right now, im out of the loop on this. Can somebody fill me in on what (if anything) happened?
Hamas launched a whole bunch of rockets at Israeli civilians and killed many. Israel declared war as a result. Situation still ongoing
Dude, it's a fucking ground invasion. They are murdering civilians in their homes and kidnapping Israeli citizens into the Gaza strip
Lemmy's flooded with anti-palestinian-occupation propaganda today.
Please keep it up.
Probably American Redditors that can't see past any of the narratives they've been force fed
In my opinion this is an "everyone sucks here" situation and no one knows how to approach it as a result.
Maybe stop killing each other and take it from there? No? More rockets and human rights abuse? Yeah that'll work...
Israel could start by ending apartheid and allowing the Palestinian people a modicum of dignity and representation in government, or let them have their own state.
And failing that, the appropriate reaction from Hamas is to fire missiles at Israeli civlians? Fuck off.
Well given that Gaza is a defacto prison, they could also beg and pray, like they did for the last 40 years without effect. When you are faced with an opressive regime, there is only giving up or fighting. And it is not exactly like Hamas can build rockets with GPS or other sophisticated aiming systems like Israel or NATO can.
If the Palestinians lay down their arms the war is over. If the Israelis lay down their arms they'd get genocided. Hamas explicitly calls for death to the Jews and they have deliberately targeted civilian populations time and time again. Hamas doesn't want a negotiated solution to the conflict, they want a Final Solution to the Jewish Question. There is one side here that can just stop the violence, and it's not Israel.
like they did for the last 40 years without effect.
Have you seen even a single damn wiki article about this place, let alone read a book?
yes i did. And in none of them just begging in praying helped their situation.
That's generally what happens when you treat people less than human long enough; they fight back.
Fight back by murdering and raping civilians? Do not forget Hamas does have a majority support according to most sources.
Israel definitely has issues with Palestinian human rights violations but there's a difference between throwing a family out of a house and razing it or shooting a kid that's trying to storm a military outpost and dragging innocent civilians from a peace concert and raping and murdering them.
Just look at what Hamas, again - an organization with majority support that does not keep any secrets around wanting to murder Jewish people, is doing and you might understand why Israel has been handling the entire situation with an iron fist. Now that iron fist will fall down and it will be innocent Palestinians suffering for Hamas' crimes.
Yes that is exactly what you should do to a population which is illegally occupying you.
Like the USSR occupied and incorporated a bunch of surrounding countries?
Is this where Pam from the Office shows up to talk about pictures?
Calling the Israel govt "genocidal" is not fair or accurate. Israel has had military superiority over Gaza every day since it was captured in 1967. If they were genocidal, they could've slaughtered all the people in Gaza at any time. Instead, the population of Gaza has doubled since 1967. If you want to know what a real genocidal regime looks like, imagine the situation were reversed and Hamas had overwhelming military superiority over Israel. Imagine Hamas had tanks, F-16s, F-35s, and Apache helicopters. What would happen? The genocide would start immediately. Hamas would be slaughtering civilians en masse. No restraint. No negotiations. True Genocide.
Before you ask, I'm not Jewish and I'm not defending Israeli atrocities. I just think this is an extremely simplistic and unfair characterization of Israel.