I love how after all the tankie YouTube videos boasting the "superiority" of Russian arms, the S-400 and S-500, Iskander etc... we finally get to see that the entire Russian military is just vaporware.
this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
516 points (98.7% liked)
World News
38979 readers
2642 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
More like vaporized ware lmao
I mean, on paper the S-400 and S-500 were very impressive and credibly so
They just didn't turn out to be that effective in reality.
At least with the air defenses the weakness that was exploited would be common to all air defense systems. It's a failure of tactics/strategy instead of a technical issue with the system.
The Ukrainians started throwing tons of cheap drones at targets and forced a dilemma: 1) Engage the drones, exhaust the air defense systems' capabilities, and then the air defense systems get targeted by cruise missiles/air strike or 2) don't engage as many drones, which lets them reach their targets.
Israel's vaunted Iron Dome system was also overwhelmed with the sheer amount of relatively cheap rockets from Gaza during the Oct 7th attacks, but obviously Hamas lacks the sophistication to follow that up with attacking the systems themselves.
I don't think that's entirely fair, the system wasn't operating at the time of the attack. It does seem to work, it just jams absolutely everything.
That's not what vaporware is...vaporware doesn't exist, it's vapor.
Russians lie about a lot, especially their military's capabilities and they have had plenty of vaporware e.g. T-95.
However...
The S-400 and Iskander are real, they just aren't as capable as described. The S-400 can't target stealth aircraft, although it can possibly track 1st gen stealth (track vs target are very different).
The Iskander is a capable ballistic missle with hypersonic speeds...just like ballistic missiles have since the 60s. But it still follows a ballistic trajectory, and is NOT capable of hypersonic maneuvering.
load more comments
(2 replies)
As much of a win as this is, there are any number of normal battlefield conditions and reasons this could've happened, that aren't just "HAHA RUSSIAN MILITARY DUMB"
- Electronic warfare systems are typically cycled to allow friendly forces to use the spectrums they jam. These schedules are timed by counter-EW teams.
- Missles and bombs often have multiple guidance systems e.g. the GMLRS fired by HIMARS/M270 MLRS both GPS and intertial guidance systems.
- HARM (Anti-radiation missiles) could have been deployed to force the Russians to kill active radar systems of the SAM battery protecting this system.
- Laser guidance from special forces, or local partisan group, could have provided the targeting.
- The story itself could be part of an information or counter-intelligence operation to hide real means and methods used, or trick Russian military/intelligence.
And these are just a few reasons why while this is a win, should probably not be used as confirmation bias to underestimate Russia's capabilities.
It doesn't change that "HAHA RUSSIAN MILITARY DUMB" either though.
That's just not accurate, and honestly, it's dangerous.
Yes, the Russian military is deeply flawed and at times, comically tragic in its errors, but it's still a lethal organization that has shown itself capable of learning and adapting.
That attitude is most concerning because the unsaid, but logical next point is, "then why hasn't Ukraine won? Are they HAHA DUMB as well?"
You may not be thinking that, but that is what pumping that idea out into the ether leads to.
Yes, they have made mind boogling choices at times, but at other times, they've shown high levels competence and the ability to change and evolve their tactics, much to the detriment of Ukrainian forces.
Listen when adults speak to you
I do wonder what the impact will be on Russia’s military equipment export business thanks to this war. It’s pretty clear now how inferior their tech is compared to the west.
I think they are currently also having a massive brain drain with their educated population simply leaving elsewhere to get better pay and not get drafted.
Good.
If you are a college educated Russian reading this, please consider motivating all in your influence to move to another country that is not the Russian Federation; USA will pay you better and treat you better with your knowledge and talents and is a country occupied entirely by immigrants from every culture, so you will not have trouble finding your community.
That's been happening since the collapse of the USSR. What we are seeing is a feedback loop.
The over quarter of a million casualties certainly isn’t helping them either
Serbia thanks Russia for it's brain gain.
If you are a college educated Russian reading this, please consider motivating all in your influence to move to another country that is not the Russian Federation
That sounds like a great way for a college educated Russian to get themselves locked up for decades. The better advice is to just get out without telling anyone you're planning to.
Terrible morrale, few people supporting the war, the rest forced into this stupid war and with the world donating their war tech to ukraine it would be hard to come out on top
Russia filled a niche of cheaper AND no strings. Their arms exports have collapsed post Ukraine, but that's also partly because they've diverted arms to their own war effort.
China and India have largely picked up the slack, but I believe it's mostly China.
South Korea has also greatly expanded it's arms industry in the past decade, especially it's naval yards, but I think they mostly compete with Western firms.
Well, when anti-GPS and GPS collide, what do you expect?
This guy physics's
Annihilation?
I bet the jammers were unsophisticated enough you could just program the GPS to continue moving in the direction where the over the air noise levels kept increasing.
Depending on the range at which the signals start to become jammed, it could be possible to navigate solely by IMU for the final leg also.
For all the legitimate criticisms of Russian military, their EW and Counter-EW capabilities are actually world class. Which is why it is a big deal when they're destroyed, or captured.
load more comments
(5 replies)
Was the jammer just a coat hangar, 9v battery, and aluminum tape?
No, but there are actually very low very cost, extremely dangerous and illegal, jammers you can make with not too much more. Basically they just burst shitloads of electrical power into the air that jamm up a surprisingly broad range of nearby RF spectrum.
This sounds like a gag from the Roadrunner cartoon.
I want to read that the GPS jammer killed the GPS on the bomb which continued flying in an unintended direction until accidentally hitting the jammer.
Yo Dawgs I heard you like GPS so I gave you a GPS target for your GPS bombs.
Can't a GPS jammer be targetted simply by anti-radiation missiles?!
In my ignorance I'm thinking of it as basically a single really powerful emitter in a certain range of frequencies which would really stand out with the appropriate frequency filter, plus it's not as if there would be any other ground-based emitters around in that range of frequencies as civilians for obvious reasons aren't supposed to be using devices which emit in that range (receive, sure, but not emit).
Anti-radiation missles targett the high output of the RF spectrum used by radars, not those used by satellite navigation.
A jammer will be a high output RF. The jammers just shout louder than the signals they want to jam to drown them out. This is wideband high gain noise that degrades the signal to noise ratio of the target signals.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(8 replies)
Plot twist: the bombs used GLONASS.
Unlikely if it was a US provided munition.
That said, I generally assume that most English language articles use GPS as a stand-in for any GNSS constellation, regardless of which one, or combination of them, was actually used.
Although, there is a reason why the Russian pilots and drivers were photographed using off the shelf Garmin units... much like the rest of their military, GLONAS was a legacy Soviet project that hasn't been well maintained or updated well post collapse.
Second best army in Ukraine
That "jammer" was definitely tampered with by the russkies' corruption and greed.
Sounds like those bombs were wasted.
Tee hee.
To any troll farm workers: ask Putin how Democracy's dick tastes.
view more: next ›