this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2023
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Marvel Studios

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21
‘Avengers: Endgame’ Director Joe Russo Takes Jab At Martin Scorsese Touting Marvel Films’ Box Office Success (deadline.com)
submitted 1 year ago by canthidium@lemmy.world to c/marvelstudios@lemmy.world
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[–] GONADS125@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

When Russo was directing Community episodes with his brother, they were talented and creative. Marvel is such low-quality repetitive content it's a waste of talent, and now has him complacent and proud of the film equivalent of the COD franchise.

This is like someone saying that an auto-tuned pop song is a greater piece of art than Beethoven, just because there is greater mass appeal. Or that Hana Montana was a higher quality show than The Wire, because it had more viewers.

Focusing on profits just shows that Russo has lost touch with cinema as an art form and is rationalizing away his selling out, while just strengthening Scorsese's argument.

Edit: Just realized what community this is. I'm sure my opinion will be unpopular here haha.

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Focusing on profits just shows that Russo has lost touch with cinema as an art form and is rationalizing away his selling out, while just strengthening Scorsese’s argument.

You guys take things way too seriously. He's just poking fun with a light hearted clapback. A silly joke means he's lost touch with cinema as an art form? Don't people know how to take things in stride anymore?

[–] finthechat@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

People taking things the wrong way and turning everything into an argument has always been a thing, though it feels approximately 1000000000000 times worse in just the last few years.

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's why I rarely commented on Reddit. People seemed to take the worst interpretaton of everything you say and want to argue about everything. It's so tired.

[–] r2vq@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

How dare you say that about my mom!

[–] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Haha ok that’s pretty funny.

Nobody asked Scorsese - the narcissist with a dog named Oscar - to trash other people’s work.

Stop looking to Hollywood for “high art” or whatever hoity toity phrase you want to use. They don’t do that any more, but it can still be found.

A24 alone has put out many great original films at the same time the MCU has been going and it’s ok to enjoy more than one type of movie.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Clever...but it isn't the burn he thinks it is lol

Scorcese was talking about the art of film and this dude is flexing finances. We know, man. The shallow, mass-appeal of your films make a lot of money. There's nothing wrong with that but Scorcese wants to see more ART get made, not cash machines.

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He's just poking fun. Why does everything have to be an argument anymore?

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's just ironic because that's literally what Scorcese is criticizing the industry for doing.... Valuing profits over everything lol

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, true. I just feel like MCU movies are still art. Filmmaking is art. Kids watching MCU movies look at them the same way people looked at Star Wars back in the day. They are transported to another universe and feel good for a couple hours. That's art, IMO, whether that was the goal or not. But I'm just confused at everyone taking Joe Russo's silly tik tok as this hardcore clapback like he was really putting up a serious contrasting argument. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just came off like a silly joke to me.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree that not every film has to be high art but Scorcese is saying (and I agree) that we're in a slump of high art because of films like the post-End Game MCU. They have completely taken over and not necessarily because they're great and people want to watch them - the push from these studios is actively suffocating high art films. People see movies regardless and there's way fewer art-focused ones.

If others are like me, it's because they're cringing a bit at the irony. It's a clever reply but completely missing the point.

Also, though not my main disagreement...Marvel is so profitable in part because they pay VFX artists next to nothing for their work. So it's like saying "yeah you make art, but check out how much I exploited the working class!"

[Edit] added "in part" to the last paragraph. I'm not foolishly claiming that VFX slave wages are the only reason they're popular and profitable!

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree that not every film has to be high art but Scorcese is saying (and I agree) that we’re in a slump of high art because of films like the post-End Game MCU. They have completely taken over and not necessarily because they’re great and people want to watch them - the push from these studios is actively suffocating high art films. People see movies regardless and there’s way fewer art-focused ones.

Yeah I definitely agree that "high art" is stifled, but that's always been the case from what I've seen. It may be more nowadays, but theaters always went towards the money makers. I think there's more high art out there than ever, but of course it's hard to find.

If others are like me, it’s because they’re cringing a bit at the irony. It’s a clever reply but completely missing the point.

Ah, yeah I can see that.

Also, though not my main disagreement…Marvel is so profitable in part because they pay VFX artists next to nothing for their work. So it’s like saying “yeah you make art, but check out how much I exploited the working class!”

Yeah, good point there. I went to college for VFX, but ended up switching to graphic design instead and I'm kinda glad I didn't end up at a VFX studio.

Good points overall and I definitely agree. But I also think Russo wasn't looking that deep. He was just giving a tongue-in-cheek response, but then again, that is an issue on its own not addressing the systemic issues outside of this little friendly banter.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I definitely agree that "high art" is stifled, but that's always been the case from what I've seen. It may be more nowadays, but theaters always went towards the money makers. I think there's more high art out there than ever, but of course it's hard to find.

The amount of stifling is at levels we haven't seen since vertical integration laws were passed unfortunately. But we're slowly coming out of it now thanks to the popularity of studios like A24! Barbie was a big deal, too.

The only two top-grossing movies in the past 25 years that weren't built off an existing IP have been American Sniper (2014) and Avatar (2009). If you look at the prior 25 years, it's almost the exact opposite

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

studios like A24!

Oh my favorite studio ever. I'm worried about their pivot to more mainstream stuff they announced though.

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Me, too. Hopefully they continue to produce the stuff they became famous for alongside the bigger films

[–] canthidium@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really hope so. Thanks for the civil and enlightening conversation. I enjoyed it!

[–] glimse@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Me too, have a good one!

[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cinema doesn't HAVE to be artistic and good, but it does HAVE to make money!

The fact that that concept is lost on people is rediculous.

If a studio executive producer is gonna throw money on a film that will make money from a base, guess what chucklenuts... they will.

Will they risk funding an indie film with a great story that appeals to one demographic... they probably won't, because this isn't the 1930 where nickelodeons were everywhere.

[–] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who hurt you, puppy?

[–] Wodge@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Of course Marvel films aren't cinema, because that's only for Americans pretending to be Irish for 6 hours.