this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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Admirals in The Orville are much better than Star Trek admirals. (startrek.website)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by RuminatingKiwi927@startrek.website to c/quarks@startrek.website
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I finished watching The Orville, it was a masterpiece from the hands of Seth Macfarlane.

Here, they showed some exchange between admirals and the main ensemble cast quite often, but watching these certain scenes made me compare them to Star Trek admirals. I personally think all admirals in The Orville are great captains who got promoted to the rank of admiral as opposed to Star Trek admirals who are just dumb politicians where our main cast captains keep dealing with their nonsense.

Of course, there are a few reasonable and competent admirals we've seen throughout the franchise, but most of them I've seen reflect real-world politicians that never even had sat on a captain's seat.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, they borrowed a lot from Trek lore, but thankfully they seem to have left the "badmiral" trope in the cutting room with the transporters. Both of which I appreciate they omitted.

The first time I watched through The Orville, every time one of the admirals was on screen, I was like, "What's your angle?" and just generally distrustful. Even Victor Garber, you might ask? Especially Victor Garber.

[–] remotelove@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

If you think transporters are bullshit, wait until you hear about subspace.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

Indeed, this is one of the areas where Star Trek has consistently fallen short of its "Utopian future" ideal. I understand that it's often done for storytelling purposes, but Orville shows how that's an unnecessary shortcut - it's still possible to write compelling stories and have the hero be a hero even if his superior officers are actually competent and in his corner.

[–] mvirts@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Orville is great, I really hope they make more

[–] RuminatingKiwi927@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago

I'd say season 3 wraps things up pretty well for the show's finale. But yeah, I'd love to have season 4, see what new major problems are going to be introduced.

[–] mynameisjeff@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never watched Star Trek but in The Orville, it is explained that you get promoted to the higher job if you have a lot of honor and respect from society

So yeah I don't see how a corrupt politician could rose to admiral. They should either be military expert that already proven great success at a lower rank or as you said ancient captain.

One day we will probably have an episode one day with all the higher ups to see their struggle when they where younger, like a big battle flash back or something like that, it would be cool

[–] Neato@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

if you have a lot of honor and respect from society

Isn't that just populism? Do they measure "honor and respect" differently than just "is popular"?

[–] RuminatingKiwi927@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's this one admiral in The Orville third season, spoilers!

spoiler

Admiral Thomas Perry. He betrayed The Union to give the Krill and Moclan the weapon that can destroy Kaylon because the Union considered the weapon as a last resort for they deemed it to be a weapon of genocide, they believe the Kaylons, despite being artificial intelligence have the capacity of change. But Thomas Perry doesn't see this and wants to destroy the Kaylon.

We can see here that this is one of a captain's traits that exists within, even after being promoted to admiral. One of the examples in Star Trek is Captain Maxwell, a decorated captain who destroyed Cardassian ships and outposts because he believed the Cardassians were re-arming and re-equipping themselves, having himself go rogue until his arrest.

Admiral Perry here is an example of such a captain who managed to be promoted to admiral. And when he faced the dilemma that we've seen in Star Trek, that was the path he took. That's whats awesome about the admirals in The Orville. They're not politicians, they're former captains and leaders each in their own way.

P.S. I keep referring to him as Michael throughout the 3rd season because he's such an actor in the sitcom "The Good Place"

[–] OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Shit, Ted Dansen is so good I forgot he was in The Orville.

[–] Wooster@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago

In retrospect, we haven’t had much in terms of badmirals in the streaming era.

Discovery had Admiral Cornwell, but when she’s presented with alternative solutions, she hears them out.

Prodigy maaaaybe has Admiral Jellico… but his bad-ness was “Don’t start a war with the Romulans”.

Strange New Worlds has April, who is barely a presence.

Picard has Admiral “Sheer /bleeping hubris” Chancy which… can you blame her?

Arguably, the only proper Badmiral we’ve really had is Buenamigo in Lower Decks.

[–] ElderWendigo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Competent admirals don't make for exciting stories though. We don't see toilets often in TV either, not because they don't exist, but because we only see toilets when they relate to the story. Admirals in Star Trek are like Chekhov's gun, we don't see them unless they're necessary for the story. Boring competent level headed not traitorous Admirals are just rarely necessary for good story telling unless they happen to be the protagonist dealing with drama elsewhere.

[–] KuroiKaze@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I also just finished it, what an incredible third season.