this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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Defederation requests, how to? (programming.dev)
submitted 1 year ago by natecox@programming.dev to c/meta@programming.dev
16 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Do we have an established practice for requesting defederation?

I would very much like to request that we defederate from burggit.moe (because I would prefer to keep my lemmy experience free of loli porn) and I went looking for the best way to do this, but the best I could come up with was posting to meta and that seems like the wrong place.

I feel like I missed something obvious ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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[–] Ategon@programming.dev 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Currently the process has been to request it in meta since I didnt think it would be common enough to flood out other meta posts and since its meta about the instance, ill check out burggit and report back with what will happen to it (whether that be defederation, purging specific communities, or nothing)

Update: I have defederated from burggit for two main reasons

  1. They ignore DMCA requests and dont follow it. We get a copy of all of their posts due to how federation works and since this rule is instance wide it can easily apply to a new community in the future if we purge current ones. We dont have the manpower to handle other instances continually breaking the law and then us needing to deal with that with takedowns
  2. pornographic content illegal in the us, same reason as above
[–] natecox@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago

I really appreciate the follow up on this, thanks for taking the time to look into it.

[–] UlrikHD@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not all that interested in defederation of the mentioned instance, but I'm curious about the DMCA justification. Do they have active requests they are ignoring, or is it just theoretical scenario for now?

What is the implication of this for future potential defederations. I don't expect instances in Russia and similar countries to care much for western DMCA requests.

[–] Ategon@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Theoretical scenario so in the future we can't be hit by a giant wave of DMCA takedown requests for things we don't manage. We're already a relatively small team and can't add the legal workload of a bunch of other sites. (If an instance complies with it it lessens the work we have to do since then the deletes get federated over) If it becomes a problem with some other instances we can purge their communities or defederate at worst case if its instance wide if they don't want to manage it but burggit explicitly says in their instance description DMCA ignored while others dont

[–] Supermariofan67@programming.dev -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I kindly urge you to reconsider this decision, as there are several communities on that instance I subscribe to and enjoy. There are plenty of SFW communities there related to touhou, music, and other topics for example.

As for 1, the instance does not seem to focus very heavily on piracy, though it does allow it. There are several piracy related instances that are arguably a larger concern with regards to this. And as for 2, although the instance does allow lolicon hentai, this material is not illegal in the US, and is protected free speech as long as it passes the same "Miller test" that any porn must. The instance does not allow or contain actual CSAM. Lolicon material, although offensive to some, is not CSAM, neither morally nor under the law.

Personally I don't care about the loli stuff. I'm not interested in it, really I'm not even interested in hentai in general and block most of the communities for it. But it harms nobody and I don't really care what people decide to look at. I just want the other communities there.

[–] Ategon@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

DMCA isnt just piracy, its copyrighted content. There are piracy communities that discuss piracy but dont provide links to the actual content (if theres some that do that link me them and ill deal with them).

Its a gray area in the US (with certain states banning it themselves) and things like the PROTECT Act existing (which is added on to the miller test, it has more than just that to follow) and due to that I would rather err on the side of caution

For a lot of those communities there are alternate communities in other instances (e.g. lemmy.world has a bigger touhou community) or separate accounts can be made

[–] DJArbz@lemmy.notmy.cloud 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You might try blocking the communities on your end.

[–] natecox@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Honestly, I don’t really want to click into a bunch of CSAM communities to block them individually.

[–] DJArbz@lemmy.notmy.cloud 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh, yeah gross... I briefly looked at their instance and it looked like Hentai. Not my thing, but who am I to kink shame.

CSAM is unacceptable though.

[–] Supermariofan67@programming.dev -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There's no CSAM there. It's just a hentai instance.

[–] Scoopta@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Loli isn't CSAM...in a lot of countries it's completely legal. Also do you not have the NSFW blur option enabled? Then you don't have to see anything when you go there to block it.

[–] EmptyMusic@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

In a lot of countries it is also illegal and is treated as such. While it is fictional and all many people will still view it as pedophilia and that is unlikely to change at any point realistically.

[–] natecox@programming.dev 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is very literally depictions of children engaged in sexual acts, which fits the legal definition of CSAM where I live.

Blurring is done at the client level by applying a filter to the images so even with blurring on, the (illegal where I live) image is downloaded to my computer regardless of if I actually see it or not.

[–] Scoopta@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Doesn't change the fact that it's not illegal in a lot of countries because it's drawn art and not abuse which is the A in CSAM. That instance is in the Netherlands where I believe Loli is legal for the reasons I've mentioned...anyway the point of my bluring comment was you could blur it...which is on the client level so you don't have to see it in order to block it. I wasn't suggesting the blur as a permanent fix. Also if you're that worried about browser cache just use private browsing or something so the cache is immediately wiped afterwards...but whatever. Also mere fact that you know what's on the instance means you must have seen something by accident...so it's already in your browser cache so that's a moot point anyway.