“We have to be careful to count speech for what it is and not what it might do”
— Biggs’ lawyer, Norm Pattis
got it! gonna find the nearest crowded movie theatre and yell "FIRE!" at the top of my lungs. thanks, norm!
this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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In general, a conspiracy charge can't be sustained on speech alone; even speech wherein two or more people agree to commit a crime. It additionally requires some overt material act in furtherance of the conspiracy.
If Alice, Bob, and Carla get together and make a plan to break Dan's window and steal his fancy new TV, that's just talk. But if Alice then goes to the hardware store and buys a window-smashing hammer, now all three can be convicted for conspiracy to commit burglary.
In this case, Biggs' overt acts in furtherance of the conspiracy included actually breaking down fences to get at Congress.
indeed. this is why the speech itself must be considered as part of the conspiracy. the comment by his lawyer seems to take the entire act and reframe it around the speech, when its clear the speech and the act are, essentially, one in this case.
edit: errant full stop
Yeah, the latest conservative tactic for pardoning criminality seems to be generalizing the acts into meaninglessness then pretending that generalized act is what's being prosecuted. This case very clearly fits the definition of a criminal conspiracy but they're trying to convince the base that the DoJ is ready to prosecute all conservatives for wrongthink.
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He’ll be 57 when he gets out so that’s a good 40+ years left for his political career.
He will get out on feb 2025 when president trump pardons all of them.
And I say that as someone that will.vote democrat, I just recognise reality
Trump won’t pardon them. He hates his base more than we do. He only pardons people who are on a level that allows to them to help Trump personally.
Also, I’m pretty damned cynical, but I still think there is less than a 50% chance trump wins. Unfortunately 49% is very uncomfortable.
They tried to help him, the problem is they failed. Trump doesn't like losers who can't even pull off a coup.
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$2M was the going rate for a pardon, IIRC.
I believe he'd absolutely pardon them. Not because he cares about them, but because it would "legitimize" his claim that the election was stolen. Or just because it would be a distraction for people to talk about while he does whatever he wants.
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If New Hampshire decides he's ineligible for the primary because of his past bullshit, it'll absolutely start a domino effect of other states doing the same.
I'm not american, so I'm not sure, but doesn't that mean if he literally can't be the republican candidate if too many states say no?
I mean, yeah, he can run independent I suppose, but Trump's ego isn't just about being president. He gets off on having the GOP under his thumb. Once that goes away, even if he "wins" as an independent, would he even be able to accomplish anything?
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Just a friendly reminder to any shit-birds reading; this is the nicest version of what we will do to traitors. You will not overthrow the government, you will not reinstate a four time impeached Yankee carpet bagger as president, you will not pass go, nor will you collect $200. You will simply rot in prison, again: at best.
Not so proud to be America's neofascist enemy anymore I'm guessing.
These guys got so caught up in brainwashing themselves. Honestly they think they are the next Nelson Mandela of the US. Then they find out effectively none were supporting them.
When they go to jail there won't be any protest. They will be alone. What a hill to die on.
Honestly they think they are the next Nelson Mandela of the US
There were like the Tory militias fighting for George III against George Washington. These assholes were literally trying to destroy the government set up by George Washington and the founding fathers.
He claims that, "I’m not a terrorist, I don’t have hate in my heart." It's funny how all of them are just so magically reformed once they're facing actual prison time.
Just a reminder: on the day tweets were claiming the gallow was brought into DC by one of the vehicles in Alex Jones' motorcade.
We need to be clear here: Mike Pence was going to be assassinated on January 6th.
And Pence is still jerking them all off, his would be lynchers.
Hey, it's his thing. He likes his wife to control his behavior towards women and his would be assassins to piss on him.
With good behavior, he can be free in only 14.5 years, and he was let off lightly.
Imagine throwing away almost 15 years of your life, destroying your family, and losing everything you worked for, because you believed Trump. Then finding out that it was all one big lie.
Really sounds like he fucked around and found out.
Later, loser.
Tarrio is the one I'm waiting on... Good riddance to bad rubbish!
The greatest trick ever pulled was liberal New York city elite trump convincing southern yokels he's one of them. You can fool some of the people all of the time. They're called conservatives.
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Not long enough, but when is it ever?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The record is the 18-year sentence given to Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, also convicted of seditious conspiracy, after prosecutors sought 25 years in federal prison in his case.
The government sought 33 years for Biggs, an Army veteran who sustained a head injury in Iraq and then served as a correspondent for the conspiracy website Infowars.
Prosecutors argued that he was a “vocal leader and influential proponent of the group’s shift toward political violence” and used his “outsized public profile” and his military experience as he “led a revolt against the government in an effort to stop the peaceful transfer of power.”
He ruled earlier in Thursday's hearing that Biggs’ tearing down of a fence that stood between police and rioters qualified him for a terrorism sentencing enhancement sought by prosecutors.
The other Proud Boys will also be sentenced in the coming days: Rehl on Thursday afternoon, Pezzola and Nordean on Friday and Tarrio on Tuesday.
The actions of the Proud Boys on Jan. 6 were “quintessential pollical behavior” up until the riot turned violent, Pattis said, arguing that prosecutors had used his client’s political speech as evidence of criminal intent.
The original article contains 787 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Thanks Bot, but in this particular case I’m going to savour every word of the full article. No hard feelings.
These are exactly the right people to lose their right to vote
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