this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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As a disabled person, I face ableism and ableist language every day. Some people use ableist language without even knowing that it is ableist. I thought it would be good for folks to take a look at the attached BBC article and expand their perspectives a bit.

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[–] ram@lemmy.ca 65 points 1 year ago (21 children)

But the fact is, discussions about the negative effect of a word such as “dumb” – a term originally denoting a deaf person who did not use speech, but which now functions as slang for something brutish, uninteresting or of low intelligence

Speaking of facts

dumb (adj.)

Old English dumb, of persons, "mute, silent, refraining from speaking or unable to speak," from Proto-Germanic *dumbaz "dumb, dull," which is perhaps from PIE *dheubh- "confusion, stupefaction, dizziness,"

Now, as for actual discussion to be had, unfortunately our language is entirely coded in slights towards different groups of people. In calling someone "a sinister villain who's a part of a cabal", I've called them a left (handed) farmer who is Jewish.

At some point we do need to accept that these negative words, which are at their fundamentals, slights to certain groups of people, have taken on a new meaning, and that their misuse as slights against those people only really applies contextually. I do think that terms like "stupid" and "idiot" have achieved that level of shift.

Feel free to disagree with me of course, I'm not here to tell you you or your experience is wrong, and I'm more than happy to have an actual discussion on this. ❤️

[–] secret_ninja@feddit.nl 10 points 1 year ago

I agree with you. In fact I had no idea dumb used to mean “a deaf person”. This word has a new meaning. This is obviously besides the fact that the word dumb is demeaning in today’s definition, so there’s that.

[–] NightAuthor@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agreed, but for words like that to make such a shift, there was a period where the words were still super offensive and used anyways. And if we are more enlightened now, we should have less of these words going forward. Like I think we’ve largely stopped such a transformation of the word “retard(ed)”.

[–] ram@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I personally have completely nixed the R word from my vocabulary. I agree that there was a time when some terms were super offensive, or the history of a term is one leaded in negative use towards marginalized peoples. I'm just not convinced that these terms in particular are ones I need to care about.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you’ve stopped using the r word because it’s offensive, that’s great! Really. Hopefully this discussion (like the linked article) will convince you that there are other terms commonly used that are just as offensive. If you can find alternatives to the r word, then you can also probably find alternatives to “deaf” and “stupid”, for example. Regardless, I appreciate that you’re trying!

[–] ram@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This isn't a new discussion I've seen, and it's something I've dealt with internally myself. It's also not as though this is a final answer. I do try to evade these words where I can, but generally I don't think they're harmful enough for me to "swear off" so to speak, if that makes sense? I'm not so dull as to say it's "a personal choice" - that stuff's just a cop-out for choosing the worst options, but I think that simply suggesting that some people may be offended by certain terms is enough to lend people to change their biases in terminology; or at least it is for me haha

Thanks for the good natured response. I appreciate that in this thread, given how intense some people seem to be.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m autistic, and so I come off pretty blunt sometimes. I am really passionate about disability justice, but blasting people just hardens their position and makes them unwilling to listen. I’m glad that you weren’t offended! :)

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree with the use of disabilities like blindness and deafness as metaphors for something negative is a hurtful practice.

On the other hand, for words that have a very archaic meaning to refer to someone's condition (that subsequently is replaced with a different definition in common usage), I think it is best if people let go of such old definitions. People should not allow themselves to consider such usage as a slight upon them, unless such phrase was used specifically as a slur against that person.

And that goes for any kind of word. For example, if I use the terms master/slave in a discussion about computer hardware, it's clear I'm not talking about any enslaved population. To make a fuss about that, to me, is people making things their problem and quite silly.

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[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Didn't someone really waste time writing an article about statements like "falling on deaf ears" being hurtful? There saved everyone a click.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Why is it hard for you to believe? If someone is telling you that the language you’re using is harmful, is your reaction really to say, basically, that you don’t care and you’re going to continue using it?

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (8 children)

If you're offended by the phrase falling on deaf ears, which is very much just an expression, then you need to go outside more. Nobody is trying to offend deaf people with that phrase.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If nobody is trying to be offensive, and deaf people (one of whom wrote the linked article) are saying that using “deaf” in this way is offensive, and you continue to use it because you don’t care… you’re being offensive. Is it really so hard to change the language you use?

[–] Endorkend@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Intent is everything and if someone is clearly not using a word with the intent to offend you, you being offended is a YOU problem, not a them problem.

And before you go say shit like able people can't know how bad it feels.

1, I'm not "abled".
2. I've had people call me these words meaning to offend and hurt me. THAT actually does hurt. These words being used without any intention to hurt or offend anyone, doesn't matter to me at all.

And sometimes, using those words to offend is perfectly appropriate to express what you want to convey.

Like how many Americans have absolutely retarded levels of overblown reactions with a word like cunt.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Intent is actually not everything. Legally speaking, if I run over a person with a car and they die, I can’t get away with it by saying, “well, I didn’t intend to kill them, so there shouldn’t be a consequence”. The impact of that person’s death is greater. It’s not murder, but it’s still manslaughter.

Ableist language is the same: it still causes harm, but obviously not harm to the body.

[–] Remmock@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Legally speaking, if you didn’t intend to kill them it actually does change the consequences.

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[–] DessertStorms@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're being deliberately obtuse and wilfully ignorant if that's what you took from the article.
And not that you care, but it isn't about offence

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[–] Guns4Gnus@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (46 children)

That's exactly the mentality they have.

Any thought that goes contrary to them being perfect turns them into petulant brats that allow them to justify having a hissy fit against the left.

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[–] Roundcat@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

BBC, giving a lesson in respect and language? (chuckles queerly)

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[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't feel that I can describe the... pride of being unique to people who haven't felt it. It feels so natural that of course a non-disabled person would want to maximize their fitness and freedom and essentially not have the same concerns and certainly not have a community over an innate quality of themselves.

Asking people to remove these phrases is asking them to be mindful of their communication, asking them to be considerate and empathetic. And it's so easy to slip back in, I was raised on these phrases.

But I will tell you the journey is rewarding. It's opened me up to friendship with people who would write me off if I did use this language, people who wouldn't share their perspective on life if I hadn't put the effort in. That discomfort with talking to disabled people that I felt as a teen? That's gone. I see mentally and physically disabled people as human, with all the same ability to show me or teach me something as anyone else. It feels great, like a weight off of my shoulders.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being mindful about language also forces us to be more critical of what we’re saying. Using an insult or slur is easy. Needing to avoid it means that we need to use our minds to engage with why we don’t like something, and that can be legitimately enlightening.

[–] Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah. I've seen so much discourse over use of the R-slur. To some, it was obvious long ago. But few of us are so gifted with that foresight, and I stopped using it... last year!

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Trying hard to remove "crazy" from my vocabulary, but I hear it so fucking often it's turning out to be really hard. But I find it's a pretty lazy word to use, anyway.

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