this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
19 points (100.0% liked)

CanadaPolitics

1895 readers
3 users here now

Placeholder for any r/CanadaPolitics refugees

Rules:

All of Lemmy.ca's rules apply

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
lightrush@lemmy.ca
grte@lemmy.ca
19
What Quebec teachers say is behind the acute staffing shortage — and what could solve it (www.cbc.ca)
submitted 1 year ago by grte@lemmy.ca to c/canadapolitics@lemmy.ca
12 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 12 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago

That's what happens when you elect neo-liberal and conservative parties for decades. They gut the social services to give the extra money to their friends through unethical deals and transactions. This is a direct symptom of the Liberal party of Québec and to some degree, the CAQ. Same with healthcare and any other social safety nets that we used to have.

These neo-liberals and conservatives sabotaged the system to go and say "See? Private services are so much better!" Then they turn around and give all the funding as subsidies to their friends who then take up all the business and keep the profits for themselves.

[–] Ransom@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

With so many shortages, even adding two or three thousand new teachers into the system wouldn’t help — the entire system is burdened because there are so many shortages, and with more kids entering the system each year, the system will be chronically burdened unless something is done. “Something” being building new colleges specifically for teaching and churning out hundreds, if not thousands, of new teachers each year. The problem is nation-wide, not just in Quebec.

[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

building new colleges specifically for teaching and churning out hundreds, if not thousands, of new teachers each year.

Expanding training and infrastructure to keep up with population! I can't believe how elusive this simple idea seems to the masses and everyone in charge.

It's the solution to healthcare too.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What good is gatekeeping if you keep expanding the fence?

[–] karlhungus@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nobody wants to teach because the pay is ass. There may be a training problem, but there's also a significant pay problem.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Teachers in Ontario own the largest hedge fund in the world. If they have a pay problem while owning that, there is no hope for anyone.

[–] karlhungus@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No individual teacher is paid for by that fund, only retired teachers. That fund is large to supply retired teachers with a pension, and can't be used to pay existing teachers.

To insinuate that some how individual teachers pay is increased by that is super weird.

Also Bridgewater is the largest hedge fund in the world, not otpp.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That fund is large to supply retired teachers with a pension, and can’t be used to pay existing teachers.

Active teachers are paid from the fund in the form of debt. When they retire, they start to collect on the debt outstanding. As you can clearly see, the fund structured such that how much one is able to collect in retirement is commensurate to how much debt was accrued during active teaching service. It is not structured as a basic dividend.

To insinuate that some how individual teachers pay is increased by that is super weird.

To ignore the payment received just because it isn't available to drop on hookers and blow is what is super weird. If I put everything I make into retirement savings I guess I received no pay at all? That's a bizarre way to look at it.

[–] karlhungus@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is incorrect. The fund pays teachers as a defined benefit. There is no pay relationship between the funds success and a teachers payout. Teachers don't receive a debt from the fund which is paid out at retirement, they have an up front defined benefit they recieved calculated based on years of service.

If the fund could not pay teachers the govt guarantees it will fill out anything remaining (if this happened who fucking knows what would actually happen).

Teachers can't receive money from the fund until they retire OR if they quit and take a commuted value which would be deemed income and taxable (ie it'd be pretty dumb to take in this way).

They have to live now, this retirement plan is nice, and one of those shining examples of privatization working well, BUT teachers any live on that while they are teaching. ECEs right now out of school earn about 26k/year. That is not going to attract people into the field.

The hookers and blow quip is shitty, first because it cheapens your argument, second because you shouldn't tell people how to spend their money.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

they have an up front defined benefit they recieved calculated based on years of service.

Exactly. Literally a debt owed to the teacher, accumulated in commensuration with the service provided by the teacher. Or, more simply, payment for work.

The hookers and blow quip is shitty, first because it cheapens your argument, second because you shouldn’t tell people how to spend their money.

Cool. Now, on to something of value, let me remind you that the whole reason we have an education system is teach our youth how to separate such emotions from their thought, to ensure that feelings don't cloud judgment in life. Given this grand display of the education system not working, what do we even need more teachers for?

[–] karlhungus@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don't get retirement benefits until you retire, you can't spend that money unil you do, and you need it then anyway. The pension helps but it doesn't make the position attractive as better wages now. Being poor now so you can retire poor while doing some very difficult work is not attractive. Further any pension as a weight in future prospects is surely weighted against them leaving the field early.

What grand display are you talking about?

Places with education systems have better outcomes for their population than places that don't, we need it so our children have a good life.

[–] EhForumUser@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You don’t get retirement benefits until you retire

Yes, that's the nature of extending credit to a debtor – you don't get your money back until the terms expect payment. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

you can’t spend that money unil you do

One could always borrow to find immediate liquidity using the outstanding debt to be collected as collateral.

Teachers, being the owners of the fund, could also come to an agreement to change its structure. The fund doesn't have to create a debt to active teachers, that's just what its owners decided to do at one point in time.

What grand display are you talking about?

The one where someone went on some weird emotional tirade because of some meaningless words. An educated populace is able to comprehend information in a message without getting wrapped up in their feelings about it.

Places with education systems have better outcomes for their population than places that don’t

According to the OCED/Statscan, Ontario is the most educated province in the most educated nation. In other words, it is considered the most educated place in the world. By which metrics does Ontario display the world's best outcomes for its population?