this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2024
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[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

now make the rats comprehend fascism.

Would be an interesting study if that was possible.

[–] ThunderclapSasquatch@startrek.website 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Another run of this experiment found rats free those with the same fur color faster or more readily

huh, that's definitely an interesting paper to write.

[–] allo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

the phrase "the free rat would usually save at least one treat for the captive - which is alot to expect of a rat"...

it clearly isn't "alot to expect" if it's automatic normal behavior for their species. It actually implies it's the normal for a rat. It just isn't normal for those humans.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

I think it means "chocolate chips are precious to rats" by that - ie that it is a big sacrifice.

[–] WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

You don't see them fuckng each other over for a goddamn percentage!

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 189 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Almost every creature that lives in a harsh environment understands about looking out for your buddies. The next day, it might be you snapped into the trap. Allies are a precious thing. A lot of people prominent in our society have forgotten, but the rats have not, nor many of the people, either.

Remember this when they start deporting your neighbors next year.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 62 points 1 week ago (1 children)

mutual aid: a factor of evolution

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[–] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 57 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 37 points 1 week ago (2 children)

You made me a little nostalgic, reminding me of when reddit was good. Right around that timeframe was the last days of when it was a human place.

https://aroundincircles.net/tales-from-a-dishonest-used-car-dealership-stories/

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[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 123 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I'm always mildly concerned about how shocked people are about animals being conscious beings with feelings. Do people really think we are mentally that different from other animals with brains?

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 70 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'm more concerned that people believe it's rare, in both humans and the animal kingdom

Predators will share territory if there's enough to go around, even forming close relationships across species, sometimes even raising their young together

Empathy is the natural state, unless there's enough scarcity. Humans are naturally generous, unless we're raised in an environment of eternal artificial scarcity...

[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 week ago (2 children)

All those rich bastards that are not generous at all must have been raised in a lot of artificial scarcity then. Really artificial since most of them grew up well to do as well.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago

They spend all their damn lives not even fully comprehending they're not living in scarcity, because the only resources they've ever been taught to focus on are those which are inherently scarce - competing for attention, fame, social status, etc.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago

To be fair, with academic types running experiments like this, the question is usually more along the lines of "At what point does instinct become empathy as we would recognize it?", and depending on how high the criteria is set for empathy there, the level of premeditation may be geniunely surprising in some animals.

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[–] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 84 points 1 week ago (5 children)

The rats don’t live in a system that exacerbates and encourages the worst excesses of the worst people. The rats that don’t help are our billionaires.

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 52 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Yeah, pick any two humans and put them in a similar situation, and I truly believe that you'll see similar empathy 99.9% of time time. But that fucking 0.1%, they're ruthless and they're rewarded handsomely for that behavior.

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (1 children)

they’re rewarded handsomely for that behavior

It's more just that they aren't punished for it. They don't have the empathy to give a shit, and thus will do things regular people won't. If society doesn't punish them for being a piece of shit, then there's no downside to being a piece of shit for them, only upsides from taking advantage of situations others won't.

[–] DeathsEmbrace@lemm.ee 20 points 1 week ago

A lot harder to punish when you can start making the laws as well. Society won’t just reward them sometimes they will let them write what everyone else should do as well.

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[–] Rusty@lemmy.ca 75 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Rats are more compassionate than insurance companies CEOs.

[–] cmhickman358@thelemmy.club 25 points 1 week ago

Cordyceps is more compassionate than insurance company CEOs.

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[–] deikoepfiges_dreirad@lemmy.zip 45 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Capitalism wants us to believe that it's the only stable solution, because it comes close to the natural order, and that in nature there is only selfish behaviour, eat or get eaten, homo homini lupus and so on. The truth is, this supposed natural state is completely made up and animals and human beings naturally behave much more selflessly than what is expected from us under capitalism.

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[–] MeatPilot@lemmy.world 38 points 1 week ago

Ok, but let's say they is a toy train and it splits into two tracks and put the rat at the lever.

[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

The owners use their captured public education and for profit media to turn us on one another and make us monsters.

They tell us avarice/greed, a well known character deficit and social blight for thousands of years is instead virtuous rational self-interest.

They force us to compete against one another rather than cooperate with one another as the basis of our economy, when an economy is meant to be a lowly tool of society for the explicit use of maximizing the efficient, equitable distribution of goods and services for the benefit of the citizens of the society. Our tail wags the dog. We are slaves to economic growth/metastasis we as a society do not benefit from.

The problem is that the sociopaths, mentally ill people literally incapable of empathy, something most humans have a strong need to exercise, that are among us quickly game society using their mental deficit as an advantage to take more than they need and manipulate others into elevating them, then manipulate those below them into fighting one another perpetually to stay on top.

Humans are social creatures. We've been conditioned to act as monsters, condemning our fellow humans literally dying in our streets of exposure and capital defense force brutality as "lowering our property values."

This isn't natural. It's why our nation's mental health is basically its own apocalypse of mass depression, anxiety, and never ending trauma. We are strongly discouraged from supporting one another, as we're supposed to do the impossible, pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, then claim we did it alone. That's the American delusion. 🇺🇸

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[–] grimspectre@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Rats. Can't use the term as an insult anymore considering they're more human than we are.

[–] hydrospanner@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago

Seems that's an insult to the rat.

[–] allo@sh.itjust.works 25 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Meanwhile humans, when put thru the same experiment, realize they can make the human in the unpleasant box pay $ if it wants out. They then learn to create more boxes for more profit.

[–] logos@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Meanwhile, humans are stuffing other animals into cages to see what happens.

[–] allo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

and then murdering them. good point.

ironic that experiment on empathy done by scientists doing mouse experiments.

[–] Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (13 children)

I dont believe this is inherent. It's not human nature. Its social conditioning as a result of living in a capitalist society.

In a capitalist society, yes. Absolutely a lot of people would do this. But even then, its not everyone.

I live in capitalism but i would certainly not force someone to pay me to let them out of a trap. Especially if they were suffering. And i would never befriend someone that would.

I would think they were a cunt.

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[–] GreenEyedMonster@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (3 children)

After observing all of the animals I've ever lived with, I've come to the opinion (unsupported, I suppose, by any real evidence) that empathy is an important part of being alive. I think every living being has empathy, and humans just got quite good at beating it out of other humans to the point where displaying psychopathic traits became something culturally celebrated.

We've been trained to be this way, and we need to reverse that trend.

[–] Wirlocke@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I'd say this is the case for mammals and birds, but I think other branches of the tree of life are more hit or miss since they're less social animals.

I'd be curious to see a study of empathy on octopi, the smartest non-social animal.

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[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Don't think there has ever been much dispute of a rat's intellect

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (15 children)

I wonder about this in animals all the time. Like, many animals seem to really enjoy being loved on and getting scritches, have a relationship with their owner or caregiver, are happy to see them and snuggle up… but in the wild they might be mostly solitary, only interacting with their own kind for mating and maybe raising young. Yet they’re often very different from the (eat sleep reproduce survive) basic wild animal when given the opportunity. They have personalities, happiness, etc.

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[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 19 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Which is why rats never built empires and conquered the world

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[–] PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

I like the one where they gave rats a lot of food and space (rat paradise) and let them breed till they were crawling over eachother till there wasnt enough food for them all. When most of them died and food was available once more, the remainders stopped eating and all the rats died.

Rats are interesting but I think the guy that programmed them left in some bugs.

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[–] ProdigalFrog 18 points 1 week ago

That sounds eerily similar to a situation in Secret of NIMH (the book, not the movie), when the rats

Tap for spoilerbeing taught how to read discover how to open their cages at night and decide to free the caged mice next to them out of empathy, who then aid in their escape.

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