Open discussion of Media / Shows / Television
Other communities
We are still open to mod application, please comment on this post: https://lemm.ee/post/40675177
Literally the only Star Wars content I'm exited for.
And even then with huge reservations, considering how the Mandalorian went post season one.
I'm quite worried that like Westworld, Andor will kind of just lose the plot and fail to maintain that cohesion and masterful story of the first season.
I'm less concerned about cohesion because Season 2 is the series finale.
Season 1 took place over about 1 year.
Season 2 is planned to take place over 4 years.
Season 1 starts at 5BBY, Rogue One takes place right before A New Hope, and that film has our Battle of Yavin.
So it's clear to me there is a plan. There isn't time to lose the plot.
My concern would be too much time passing between episode arcs, and too many gaps leaving us wondering what happened. (Although I'm pretty trusting that this won't be an actual problem.)
My main source of worry is Disney insisting on the show integrating a bunch of shit from the other shows, or the Star Wars brand at large.
I know the Andor showrunners have a plan. So did the writers for Westworld, but there the writers lost the plot because after season one came out, people connected a bunch of dots, and inevitably, because season one was internally consistent and full of well-done foreshadowing, someone got it right.
The writers of Westworld didn't like having their subversion of expectation subverted, so they threw all their plot threads out and started over. All the foreshadowing, all the plans, dumped in favor of doing something that made no sense just to ensure no-one would see it coming.
I'm not so worried about Andor losing the plot for the same reason, but rather suffering a similar devolution into nonsense due to Disney forcing in a bunch of "brand integration" that all their other stuff has suffered as soon as they gain steam.
Especially since it's a series finale, Disney will have no qualms shitting all over a show that's ending anyway, just to shove some more "brand awareness" down our throats. Doubly so because they know season one has fans that will definitely tune in for season two.
Disney only makes good stuff by accident anymore, and when it happens, it immediately attracts the attention of the higher-ups, who then try to squeeze out even more "optimized brand synergy" from it.
Disney only makes good stuff by accident anymore
I disagree. I think former Disney CEO Bob Chapek caused the company an incalculable amount of damage. He might have left (been fired) in 2022 but we're only at the end of his damage now (2025 and beyond). And yes, I am using him as a convenient scapegoat.
Obviously the Sequel Trilogy was a mess when they didn't plan anything out. A lesson they've hopefully learned from.
In terms of Disney having no qualms about shitting all over a show that's ending, I think they would. If you screw with talent it goes elsewhere, and that includes writers/directors. Tony Gilroy isn't a huge name, but I still think they would have qualms. This wasn't true under Chapek who decided to fight Scarlett Johansson for some reason. Under Bob Iger, it's a different story.
(And obviously I could be totally wrong, if we see more garbage over the next few years I'm not sure what the fix will be.)
The solution is to not have one giant company own literally all mainstream video entertainment.
I know that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.
I don't think a media company as big as Disney is capable of becoming a heaven for artistic integrity and creative expression.
They are changing course on things because they started losing money, not because the shows sucked. Disney+ has been a disaster, but that's because the business model was dumb. The shows being good would not have helped much.
Case in point, their live action remakes are atrocious. But no-one at disney cares that they're shit, because they make bank at the box office anyway.
I stand by my statement. Current day Disney only makes good stuff by accident. They're not going to fix that, unless it starts losing them money. Which it isn't.
If theres one thing that studios like Illumination have proved, it's that making money in no way requires quality.
The solution is to not have one giant company own literally all mainstream video entertainment.
Oh I agree.
And I definitely agree that making money is what they're looking at. My hope is that the two things align, making money and making great entertainment.
The live action remakes are a great example of just making money and not making good entertainment.
I'll actually be curious to see how "Mufasa" does since it's a small branch into original content (it's a new story, but it is also a prequel). We might get an era of direct-to-VHS like in the 90s but on the big screen. Not that those 90s films were great, I just think they were interesting.
My hope is that the two things align, making money and making great entertainment.
They do, but when it happens, it's coincidence. That's what I mean when I say Disney only makes good stuff by accident.
Not all good entertainment makes money, and not all entertainment that makes money, is good.
I dunno I think they have a pretty good track record of doing both (ignoring the past few years, which I blame Chapek for).
Pixar has had a pretty great run over the years. Sure Disney was just partnered with them for the first few years, but they acquired them in '06 and still kept up the quality. Not to say they had 100% success, but far more wins than losses.
Star Wars animation has done solid work throughout the years. Sure you can give credit to Dave Filoni who started it before the acquisition, but Disney didn't mess with it.
Disney Animation was obviously the gold standard starting in the 1930s. They did struggle after the 90s boom, especially shifting to 3D animation, but starting with Princess and the Frog/Tangled (2010ish) they've had solid hits.
The MCU, largely developed while under Disney, has been considered a huge hit both in quality and monetarily. A few missteps along the way but overall solid.
Now Star Wars live action. That is the area that's been the weakest. It's also what got us on this conversation. As I said the Sequel Trilogy, not great. An OK start, but terrible finale. I liked Solo, but I get that's not a common opinion. Rogue One & Andor, solid so far. Mando had a great start.
Again I've stopped once Chapek shows up. Which also means I skip the weaker Pixar films in the past few years, I ignore the Disney Animation sequels we might have too many of, I ignore the post-Endgame drop (some are OK, but overall it's a drop), and ignore the weaker Star Wars live action.
Could one man really screw all that up? Probably not, but he can cause a lot of damage.
You're not hearing me.
I'm not saying Disney can't, hasn't, or won't make good stuff.
I'm saying Disney isn't an art-making-machine, because it's actually a money-making-machine.
Sometimes a byproduct of it making money, is art. But the art hasn't been the point for decades, and never will be again.
And I'm not saying art can't be the point for some of the people involved, but that still doesn't change the fact that they are a component of a money machine, that WILL squander them, if it means more money.
Andor was so good it made me sad when it was over that other Star Wars media wasn't this good.
Off the deluge of Star Wars content post-Disney acquisition Andor was one of the best. I'm looking forward to season 2.