this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2024
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EV Batteries Can Outlast A Vehicle’s Lifetime With Minimal Degradation, Study Finds - The battery degradation rate in modern EVs has gone down by almost a quarter in the past five years. (insideevs.com)
submitted 1 month ago by Lugh@futurology.today to c/futurology@futurology.today
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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

A 1.8% annual degradation rate means that in 20 years, the battery of an EV would theoretically still have 64% life in it. In other words, it could still theoretically achieve 64% of its original range figures. So in the case of a Tesla Model Y Long Range All-Wheel Drive, one of the best-selling EVs in the world, its original 320-mile range would go down to 204.8 miles, which would still be plenty for town driving or even short road trips.

What’s more, Geotab said that highly used EVs don’t show increased battery degradation rates, meaning more value can be achieved the more they are driven.

I would like to actual numbers like how many hundreds of thousands of miles.

And car drivechains should last a long friggin time so these headlines of battery outlasts car are stupid and inaccurate.

[–] jonc211@programming.dev 5 points 1 month ago

An annual degradation of 1.8% over 20 years gives more than 69% capacity the end of the period, so it’s better than what you posted.

Each year, you have 0.982 of the previous year’s capacity (1 - 0.018), so the capacity at the end of the 20 years is 0.982 ^ 20.

[–] Nomecks@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago

Charge Taxi is Kelowna BC started back in 2012 when the city didn't let Uber in. They now have a fleet of Teslas pushing a million kliometers.

[–] femtech@midwest.social 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

ICE drivetrains can last a long time with a lot of maintenance, the battery system does it itself.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The basic structure of electric motors inherently means they will last a long time. ICE motors will not.

[–] Jrockwar@feddit.uk 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Fair, but in its lifetime, the maintenance for my 20-year-old car has cost less than one single battery swap. Last year was a bad one and it cost me £500 between maintenance and repairs. A battery swap for a Tesla is well, well above 10k. A Taycan's batteries cost about £20k to replace and it's nothing to do with being a Porsche; it's just how much the batteries for a long-range EV cost to replace. They are expensive, and scattered across the whole floorplan so replacement is a nightmare.

I agree that the motors are pretty bulletproof, but total cost of ownership is still unfortunately quite comparable if you keep an EV for the long term. It's just a different "payment plan" for the maintenance, where you get hit with one single massive bill after X years. This is worrying because people might choose then to scrap a perfectly good car with a damaged battery - it's the EVs way of programmed obsolescence.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You think $500 is bad? Wait until you have to rebuild the motor and transmission. Ok, put simply a ICE engine and transmission will last ~200k miles each. An electric motor (no transmission necessary) should easily reach 1 million miles. Should be more than that too, I wouldn't be surprised if most decently designed and built ones reach 1.5 million miles. That's 4-5 engine and transmission rebuilds/replacements minimum compared to an electric motor. That's not including major things like timing belts.

And as this article says, batteries are lasting a long time. I was hoping they gave a milage but they didn't. From what I've read they should be going 300k, so better that ICE rebuilds. And batteries are getting better each time.

Speaking of which:

nothing to do with being a Porsche ... scattered across the whole floorplan so replacement is a nightmare.

Scattered? Sounds like everything to do with being a Porsche. Good design is the battery is one pack.

Total cost of ownership also includes fuel, which is ~5x of electricity cost. That works out to about $1200 saved per year. Yes I know that ratio can change quite quickly.

I think you're talking disingenuously when you include battery replacements but not including engine rebuilds/replacements, so that's my last message.

[–] Jrockwar@feddit.uk 1 points 1 month ago

I'm not talking disingenuously, I'm all pro-electric. In fact it looks like my next car will be a Taycan, unless something changes unexpectedly.

But counting engine rebuilds as an inevitable matter of life is rather disingenuous too. My other ("hobby") car is a 1977, so that's 47 years now, and still on the original engine and transmission. This is not an uber-reliable statistical anomaly: it's an unreliable piece of shit (a handmade sports car from a small manufacturer) but despite that, the block is still solid and original. Engine rebuilds are not common, unlike batteries which have an ever-degrading chemistry no matter how good they are.

And I strongly disagree on good design being a single point mass of over 700 kg concentrated in one block. The "skateboard" around suspension components and chassis is the most common design for a reason.

[–] zurohki@aussie.zone 2 points 1 month ago

It's not just the drivetrain - if you're in cold areas that salt the roads you can lose the suspension or frame to rust damage.

[–] SirSamuel@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So now is the time to buy an EV. Hit that sweet spot where new technology durability outpaces planned obsolescence

[–] BlackLaZoR@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago

People are forgetting that first Toyota Prius had everlasting batteries, except they were always running between 40% and 60% of charge.

It's not hard to make long lived battery, but you inherently have to sacrifice a lot of capacity

[–] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

I hope this is true- the main drawback to EVs has been they become total ewaste in like 7-10 years.

#2 problem is the lack of serviceability of the battery packs themselves- https://www.autoevolution.com/news/yikes-the-60000-hyundai-ioniq-5-battery-replacement-saga-continues-226590.html

I think government mandate for interchangeable battery models based on some kind of standard, and requirements that they are removable and repairable is required to force manufacturers stop making these things proprietary and non-serviceable.

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 1 points 1 month ago

Don't worry I'm sure they will figure out a solution to this so you still need to buy a new one every 5 to 7 years