“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”
Labour and the Tories are not the same. The purpose of the narrative that they are is to foster and maintain voter apathy.
this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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Labour and the Tories are not the same
No, they're not. But that doesn't make them good. Less bad, perhaps, but good is a stretch.
The purpose of the narrative that they are is to foster and maintain voter apathy.
Voters are apathetic because they rarely (if ever) get to vote for something, usually it's voting to stop something/somebody else.
I agree that voting these days seems to be about “holding one’s nose” and picking the party most likely to stop something.
I blame FPTP.
At the moment, if you’re right-leaning there’s essentially just one party of note but if you’re left-leaning you’ve got some choices.
With PR, I believe more people would be able to just vote for what they want to see.
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This is a good summary of Labour's actual policy positions, which are very different from your characterisation of them. You obviously have the right to vote for whoever you want to, for whatever reasons, but it's better to root your behaviour in reality, not rhetoric.
Thank you! It's actually worrying how much people seem to be basing their idea of what party policy will be on soundbites they've heard.
This country is in dire need of some political literacy. Thinking that the Tories and Lib Dems are somehow better on LGBQT issues than Labour would be hilarious if it wasn't a damning indictment of the intelligence of British voters.
Would you be able to unlock the article for us by any chance? 🙏
Search for it on archive.is
If you're on Firefox you can add a filter for paywalls to uBlock Origin.
Will do thanks!
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You don't vote FOR a party in a first past the post system. You tactivally vote against.
@Garfvynneve What I tell them I'm planning to do doesn't have to match with what I'll actually do.
We all can do this to demand better.
The famous Labour double bind:
If a left leaning Labour lose the election, it's because they don't appeal to voters. If a right leaning Labour lose the election, it's because the left didn't vote for them.
@Fedegenerate I didn't say I won't vote for them, I just told them they had lost my vote.
Staying silent and voting for a not good enough Labour let's them think they are. Telling them I won't even though I might vote for them, and describing why, gives them an opportunity to evaluate.
If they're not good enough for you and yours what are you doing to change that? My strategy is one way. There are others.
don't think I'm describing what you think I'm describing.
I'm describing the no win situation right leaning Labour supporters try to force left leaning people into.
I.e. 1 When a Labour leader they don't like loses an election it's the left's fault. 2 When a leader they do like loses an election it's the left's fault.
I saw the same double bind being envoked in this thread, so I thought I'd highlight it.
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Can you vote tactically for Lib Dem or Greens without risking more votes going to the Tories?
Tactically speaking, you can vote for the party you want to win only if you are absolutely certain that a) the tories have such a strong majority there isn’t a chance of anyone else getting in; b) some other party has such a majority there isn’t a chance of the Tories getting in. Otherwise you vote for the non-Tory party (or party that will not ally with the Tories) that is most likely to make it in your area.
I still vote tactically because there have historically been some close results where I live, but I’m sick of voting for parties I don’t want to win. I decided to become a member of the political party that I felt I was in most in line with, despite the fact I rarely vote for them. Small gesture, I know.
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As far as I'm concerned, the worst case scenario (by a very large margin) is another Tory government. I'll be doing everything I can this side of campaigning for Labour (my MP is Labour and he's alright, my local councillors are also Labour and active and all the ball, but I can't bring myself to actual promote a party who's policies I struggle to endorse). So that's mainly sending out tactical voting information and offering lifts to the polling stations.
@Emperor I agree, Tory is worst. I don't have to let a not good enough Labour think they are good enough.
Recall I *told* Labour they lost my vote, that doesn't mean I can't exercise my vote in any way that effectively gets the Tories out, which includes actually voting for Labour.
The Torys thank you for your abstention, and look forward to enacting policies which enrich themselves at your expense.
@Overzeetop That's another way of accusing me of being a Tory enabler. The point being as I have said elsewhere, is that what I tell labour I will do and what I do, are not their or anyone else's concern.
In the meantime I can lobby for policy change in any way I see fit, as can anyone else, in a democracy as it currently stands.
It isn't a simple dichotomy, despite FPTP.
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Same. Their acceptance of current Tory actions like not revoking new oil and gas licenses and child benefit cap. Also watering down their own environmental policy. These things in our current situation are inexcusable.
They pander to Tory voters, bigots, and stay on the side of big business and the media.
The Greens have my vote.
It depends what’s more important. Labour currently assume that power for powers sake is an acceptable strategy and with their numbers, it currently will be enough. But will that last beyond a parliament? How badly do we need to be rid of the Conservative Party? I’d say it’s essential for progress. Those swathes of centre left MPs will fill the benches by the hundreds and Starmer will need to be pragmatic to pass any bills.
I just think the doubts of what Labour are for are entirely valid, but there’s also the pressing matter of destroying the people who have gleefully ruined this country. As a sports fan I say take ‘em to the fucking cleaners. As a Labour man I can see a pressing need to release some Labour policies instead of hounding the left out.
@snacks
I think it's important for me as the OP to point out that telling Labour they've lost my vote is as important as my vote.
If there's a lack of push-back from the left regarding Labour's movement right, then they will assume this is what the voting public want.
I'm certain there are others that share at least some of my views on this.
A this late stage, the LibDems or Greens can't make a push to win.
I also cc'd my local LibDems and Greens in the same email re: a coalition strategy.
Yeah I don't see any point throwing a vote to a party that no longer has any of your interests at heart, if anything it just reinforces their decision if you do that
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The Overton Window has shifted so far to the right, any “more progressive” party that has a chance of getting into power kinda has to play to the crowd. It’ll take time for it to shift back to a more “familiar” (centre) left.
I do feel you on some issues here. Others like Europe I think are well left alone this election after the last election was a one topic vote eventually.
Personally I'll still be voting labour, as things stand, mainly because my MP is an old school labour type and having people like that lose and leave the party doesn't help to shift it leftwards again and also there was only a few thousand in it last time and a neutered version of labour is still preferable to more Tories.
However Starmers leadership has made it feel less like holding my nose to got and more like I need a full hazmat suit.
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