No, fascists (which TERFs are) should not be allowed to fester here.
this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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The magazine's rule #1: NO BIGOTRY omfg I can't π€£π€£π€£π€£
"No bigotry against US! TERF is a slur even though we coined it!" Is what they really mean.
@ernest You should look into that, how is it allowed?
I've already sent him a PM about that user & magazine a while ago. Still waiting and hoping to hear / see something.
Edit: I also think this is kinda disappointing. Kbin immediately defederated from nsfwlemmy over some bullshit allegations that weren't even true. Meanwhile this and other examples of toxicity remain to fester directly on this instance.
I sent him one a few months ago, and it was gone within a few hours. I think he cares, but is swamped and probably gets a ton of BS.
It needs to be acted on though. We don't want this to become a nazi bar. I hope he can figure out a way to share the load sometime soon.
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I tried to report this magazine using the "contact" page a while back as it violates the kbin.social terms of service, but I guess as long as it's only one nutjob posting and all the posts are getting disliked, it isn't really a priority to remove.
Best not to let it fester
Seriously. The dozen or so people subbed there are people I would prefer not find safe haven on Kbin
I also definitely feel like it's best to take more decisive action against hateful magazines, but I'm just assuming that this is @ernest's logic: That people can block or clown on bigots until the bigots feel unwelcome, grow bored at the lack of an audience, and leave.
I've personally been thinking of migrating to BlΓ₯haj Lemmy because of the inadequate moderation against hateful magazines on this instance, but I'm waiting to see how kbin.social's administration approach goes long-term. I think it would definitely be worthwhile for Ernest to invest in a bigger admin team and a more democratic approach to administration.
Ugh, and 10A somehow also hasn't been banned yet (and a quick check to his profile shows that he isn't just still making bad-faith arguments about "free speech" but is also still spreading xenophobia, fake news about the last election, and so on).
I'm out. Anyone know of a kbin (not lemmy) instance with reasonably good moderation?
Our main problem is that the kbin software doesn't yet support having multiple admins on an instance. Ernest isn't really able to handle both improving the code and doing instance-wide moderation, so the latter is neglected.
Your best bet for now would be a smaller instance with an active admin, though the overall problem will persist until the right features get added to the software.
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He actually downvoted this thread. lol
And my comment. In a private window I can see that he replied to my comment as well, despite the fact that I blocked him, so blocks are still not working properly apparently.
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There are not a lot of Kbin instances yet, so it's hard to say at a glance whether an instance has actually good moderation or if it just doesn't have enough users to cause trouble to begin with.
Edit: I found a more expansive list of instances and fedi196.gay seems like a good one
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall fight to the death to defend your right to say it.
When you ban people, you tell them to go form an echo chamber where they'll flourish.
A more intelligent approach is to imitate Daryl Davis, who has convinced hundreds of KKK members to leave the KKK, simply by respectfully talking with them.
You might actually learn a thing or two in the process.
But that magazine literally has a rule forbidding misogyny, so what exactly are you so deeply offended over?
For every Daryl Davis who can successfully talk down 100 Klansmen, you'll find 100 Black people begging for their lives trying to reason with the Klan in their last moments. For every thought of "I can fix them!" that you may have, you have to weigh that against how many more people you'll need to fix if you platform their ideas and treat them as something worth "respectfully debating".
Convincing people to leave hate groups is a great thing to do, but if respectful debate were effective on the large scale, and we have no shortage of people respectfully arguing that hate is a bad thing, why is the far right a bigger threat now than it was ten years ago? Do not tolerate the intolerant, do not debate the undebatable, do not respect the unrespectable.
The "far right" is growing because the left keeps moving further left, and normal people realize they're now considered conservative.
If you want an echo chamber, go on and kick me out. You reap what you sow.
What insane version of reality are you living in?
Globally the Overton window has shifted drastically right these past few decades.
Not too long ago leftists were holding ceos hostage and fighting armed conflicts, itβs so watered down people think someone like Bernie Sanders is a radical communist when heβs basically centrist.
The "far right" is growing because the left keeps moving further left, and normal people realize they're now considered conservative.
I guess there really is no floor for how simple an idea can be when it's not beholden to reality. Thanks for the example.
I'm sorry I'm trying to give you rights and you feel attacked by that.
This talking point is a deliberate strategy of the far-right that has no basis in reality.
The far-right is growing because people like him are allowed platforms to groom people for extremism. And whenever that platform is at risk, they start trying to guilt people by bleating about "censorship" and "free speech" and "echo chambers".
Just ban him. He will never contribute anything of value. We're already aware what the opinions of assholes are, we don't need reminding.
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You sound like you've never argued with fascists online.
They only exist in echo chambers, anyway, and do not debate in good faith. There is nothing similar to what Daryl Davis did except in the most superficial way possible. Go visit /r/conservative and you might actually learn a thing or two.
I was active in r/Conservative, and here I'm the primary contributer to m/Conservative. Hi, nice to meet you. When I'm engaged in arguments involving the word "fascist", it's rarely me using that word (unless we're literally discussing Mussolini), and usually me who's called that for favoring levelheaded conservative principles. I enjoy mutually respectful debate, but I find most others prefer to fearfully call me a "fascist," downvote everything I've ever written, block me, and walk away feeling sanctimonious.
You were active in the biggest alt-right safe space echo chamber in all of reddit? Colour me surprised.
I was active in r/Conservative, and here I'm the primary contributer to m/Conservative.
This is already a point at which you should go home and rethink your life. Everything else you've said only digs the hole deeper.
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That's a hilarious turn; my statement was meant to be rhetorical. But you really have never argued with fascists!
And I never said YOU were fascist... but I guess that doesn't fit with your canned response then, huh?
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I have mixed feelings about this
On one hand, Daryl Davis is a hero, and his method actually works to de-radicalize people. I prefer using this method when I encounter bigots irl.
On the other hand, allowing bigoted speech in your online platform has the potential to drive away normal folks and turn your platform into the echo-chamber where bigotry flourishes that you mentioned. This is basically what happened to Voat.
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall fight to the death to defend your right to say it.
I agree with this, but it's beside the point. This isn't a public space like a street corner, it's a managed public/private space like a bar, where the bouncer will kick you out for abusing other patrons.
A group of patrons sitting at a table in a bar, quietly discussing their TERF perspective, is entirely different from one of them walking up to a trans table and picking a fight. The former is an exercise of free speech, whereas the latter is cause for ejection.
No. You don't have the right to debate other people's right to exist. Such speech is an act of violence and should be treated as such.
I don't want a group of people sitting around "discussing" whether or not black people are inherently inferior either. That is not speech we should accept in the public sphere
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They're not discussing quietly, everyone can hear them, and they want to be heard.
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Except itβs more like a group of patrons at a bar talking about killing a trans person, and than the next day one of them actually does it.
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If thereβs a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.
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The magazine name is Modern Misogyny and rule 1 is "No bigotry - misogyny...".
That is like dividing by zero.
Right now, it appears to exist only with one user posting to himself. It is not a big problem. However, if you don't clean these things up quickly, you end up with a Nazi bar. Voat started out very Libertarian, but by the time it closed, its front page was dominated by hard-core antisemitism, it literally became a Nazi hang-out. Tolerance of intolerance ends up allowing the intolerance to spread and become the majority. kbin.social can not end up like that.
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