Games

Until they ditch the "live service" model, this will continues. How many big title games today are really sold in a complete no BS state where DLC actually means extra contents? No much I guess.

That stems from the revenue model, and not by gamers.

I’d almost love if games were released and getting no updates after that. But only if the games are released in a complete state.

I hate the fact that you shouldn’t play some games as soon as they are released, because you’d be playing the inferior version.

That needs to change.

There used to be an unspoken contract with game developers and gamers:

• "I'll release a finished game that you will never need to talk to me again if you don't want to, and you can play it on any offline computer that meets the minimum specs. You will pay $X one-time for this and expect $0 spent on this game ever again"
• "I may release an expansion pack for this game at some point in the future. It will usually cost 10% to 30% of what you paid for the original game. You are NOT required to buy this. If you like the original game the way it is, keep playing it that way. If you are a new player, you will have to buy the base game and then the expansion pack to play expansion pack content"
• "I may, in the future, release a stand-alone sequel to the game. This game will have the same themes as the original, but I will increase the quality of the graphics/length of story/sound. You will NOT be required to buy the original game or the expansion packs to play this game. You will pay full price for this finished game"

Somewhere that evolved into shipping unfinished games, subscription based games, battlepasses, endless DLC, loot boxes, and forced online connections for single player games.

The game studios broke the contract. If they want endless money, that comes with endless work.

The game is released, for a certain amount of money. If people don’t like what they get for their money, they simply should not buy it.

The problem does not lie with gamers. It lies with 'AAA' developers who publish unplayable cashgrabs that need years of bugfixing before reaching a playable state, thus leading to expectations of ongoing development. Not that Early Access has helped in that regard.

If someone complains about buying a finished game and not getting more of it later, they're idiots and there's nothing you can do but ignore them.

Publishers that do ultra-early access/roadmaps/live services with promises of content/bug fixes/trust me we're making the rest of the game later, are clearly to blame for the mess too. They're the ones poisoning the well.

But plenty of games release in a final state and that's okay. They have to be firm about it though.

I think part of the problem is down to how a lot of games come out as "Early Access" which implies it's more bare bones and will get fleshed out over time.

If a game releases as EA then the expectation is you will get more content until release, if a game just comes out without EA then it's assumed it has all content and anything new is dlc/mtx/expansions.

I'm not gonna bother addressing Live Service games, wish they would go in the bin with most other MTX.

I just want to buy a game that's actually finished. Early Access has ruined that first play experience.

Spend years releasing unfinished and incomplete work.

Gamers expect work to be unfinished and incomplete.

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Thank you for all the free updates ConcernedApe. I hope you're enjoying your time with your millions and if/when you release the Haunted Chocolatier I'll get that too. You're great and your game is great.

The article says that comment came from a CEO of another game company, not players. Tim Bender, the CEO of the publisher for The Manor Lord, said "Players are happy, the developer is happy, and we as publisher are thrilled beyond belief." I don't understand where the post title that says he cited gamer expectations came from.

Game Publishers: complains about how users expect endless content

Also Game Publishers: Mostly pushes for live service games and Free-to-Play

surprisedpikachu.gif

Sorry, but I for one am not going to accept these companies blaming everything on gamers. I'm not into bootlicking. Gamers are annoying af for sure, but I'm not blaming systemic industry problems on gamers. That's complete horseshit.

A good game will stand on its own merits. It will be complete and self-contained at launch. And any DLC released later will have been planned from the very start.

Endless updates is just another word for cosmetic micro-transactions and an excuse to make you keep the game online all the time.

Before you throw stones be advised that this team is like 5 people at most, the game just blew up and some gamers are giving it the Valheim treatment wanting faster and faster updates.

Never preorder. Never surrender.

I've seen people say 'I played forza for 150 hours and now it's boring"

Like dude, wtf

Sounds like a management issue, how is the guy paying for the services gets shitted on here

I also don't understand why I am being scolded by a guy I paid 30 bucks too for alpha testimg...

I never complained.

The dev seems to have a good publisher that's on their side, which is nice to see. I find it bizarre that this rebuttal comes in response to the CEO of Hinterland Studios, the devs of Long Dark, which was in early access itself for ages. Dunno if they think they're above it all now, but you'd think they would at least be sympathetic of devs facing that kind of shit. Probably just CEO saying CEO shit. Hopefully the Manor Lords dev doesn't let it get to them much, or at all.

Why only devs though? No worker should be exploited like that, no matter the occupation!

Generally speaking it’s impossible to define a standard for how much output is “enough” for a developer.

Management always wants to extract as much as possible.

Excellent write up by the publisher and good that they warned Greg of the shit storm ahead.

I bought it, played it. It was already fun. The patches fixed some of the issues that made playing it not fun.. so good choices there. I left him some small feedback on the game and some words of encouragement in the hopes that helps.

I hope he can continue his development to deliver his vision for the game. I feel like I got my moneys worth already and I'll spin it up when the next series of updates are done.

Till that time I just saw Timberborn (another one of these jewels) had a cool update so I'll go and try that or one of the mysiad of other cool Early Access games that still receive a lot of love.

I don't know if this recaps the situation accurately, to be honest.

Sounds like the publisher is complaining about some article that's trying to use the game as a reference on why early access can be a bad thing.

I don't see how the gamers are an issue though. They will expect what you tell them to expect, this is something for the publisher to manage, and I don't even think this is a problem for Manor Lords.

All of it just seems like news sites trying to come up with their clicks.

I don't want a fucking endless game I want a finished game for the price I pay at release that doesn't require $3000 gpu to render the most obnoxiously detailed graphics of a game that has the fucking depth of mine sweeper.

Especially with this game, where the dev and publisher have actively worked to manage expectations before early access. That it’s not at all complete yet. There were so many people super hyped, comparing it to total war and what not. So they made it clear this game is on another scale.

If it had been the other way around, if they had hyped up the game like crazy and made huge promises about the post EA launch content, then yeah, it would be a failure.
And I suppose in practice it also would’ve been a “failure” if they hadn’t managed expectations, due to the hype and the general expectation from post launch content these days… (sigh)

But what we got is exactly what was promised, so what on earth is that Hinterland guy talking about.

Riiiight... it's the users of the product that is forcing the producers to work under toxic conditions, and totally not their money-grubbing capitalist bosses.

Riiiight.

Very reasonable, I hope the dev sticks to his guns and keeps a manageable pace. I feel that it's right to expect content updates coming in if the game is marked early access, but so long as you don't pull a Valheim, people shouldn't be mad at you