this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024

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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by ptz@dubvee.org to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world

141 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Kbin/Mbin (and possibly others?) definitely have the edge here since those platforms make votes public (only admins can see them on Lemmy). So, if you want to confirm what I'm saying here, go view some of these posts from Kbin/Mbin.

Every time one of the "usual suspects" says stuff like this in the comments, there will later be posts detailing how Biden is doing (or at least earnestly trying to do) exactly the things they're saying he needs to be doing (oR ElSe i WiLl noT voTE anD NEithER ShoULD yoU!!!11!!). 100% of the time, those posts are downvoted by these same "usual suspect" accounts.

What gives? They have very strong opinions about how he should run his administration, so you'd think they'd appreciate him doing what they've been so helpfully suggesting. Unless....it was never about the issues at all.

That thin veneer of concern they're hiding behind is not as thick as they think it is and is quite easy to see through. Now you know where to look.

Edit: Please don't name and shame any specific users. That may violate the community or LW rules. We all know who most of the "usual suspects" are.

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[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 63 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Although I'm not a huge fan of old guard centrists like Biden, I will admit that he's been a decent president. While not enacting the kind of transformative change we need, he has been effective at making improvements to the law and advancing the interests of the people, in spite of pre-Civil War levels of partinsanship and fighting.

Internationally, he has handled the Ukrainian War pretty well by making the entire endeavor a joint NATO action from the very beginning. He's positioned the US as a member of a powerful alliance, rather than a bully that tries to dictate everything. He should have lifted restrictions on military aide earlier, etc., but mistakes are always going to be made in complex situations. His weakest point is Israel, but looking back I'm not sure what he could have done to stop the war. Netanyahu sees this war as the vehicle for his political survival and refuses to listen to reason. He's advanced a reasonable peace process multiple times and has even gotten Hamas on board (with a lot of help from Egypt, Qatar, and others, of course). In the end, he can't force Netanyahu to do the right thing.

And of course, it has to be said that the alternative is worse across the board on every single issue. We still have a need for the president that Obama looked like he was going to be before taking office, but it just isn't going to happen this time. Please just vote for Biden, especially if you live in a swing state. It's what's best for the country.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago (4 children)

You're going to explode the fediverse with a take this grounded in reality

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[–] HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 36 points 4 months ago (12 children)

Prior to 1993, Canadian politics was dominated by two parties: The Liberals, and the Progressive Conservatives.

In the federal election of 1993, the government of the Progressive Conservatives (who had been in power for 9 years) was so unpopular that their vote collapsed and they won only 2 seats in parliament. The Progressive Conservatives were never again a political force in Canada.

In the same election, the votes for minor parties like the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Alliance surged, with the Bloc Quebecois becoming the new official opposition party with 54 seats in parliament.

Is it wrong for me to hope something similar will happen in the US elections?

[–] Skua@kbin.earth 39 points 4 months ago

It's not at all unreasonable to hope for it, but you need to see sufficiently low support for the party in question. That does not look even slightly plausible in the upcoming US election. It might happen in the upcoming UK one, and you can see clearly the difference in polling and reporting

[–] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 33 points 4 months ago (2 children)

No, but it is foolish to think that it begins at the Presidency. Historically, new parties have emerged from grassroots movements, beginning with local offices like school boards and city councils. Otherwise, they have been splintered from existing parties.

So do those things down-ballot instead.

[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

Yeah, people talking about proportional representation seem to turn a blind and eye to the Senate, which has had principled socialists and libertarians in its seats. It's not a healthy state of affairs, but if you wanted to send a message to the Democrats theres a proven way to do it in house and Senate races, trying to make big swings at the presidential level is just idiotic and betrays bad faith.

[–] Triasha@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah we can limp along with a major party and a minor party for a couple decades. We have before.

There will never be more than 2 for more than 1 election cycle. Ross Perot couldn't do it. Pat Buchanan couldn't do it. George Wallace couldn't do it.

Teddy Big Brass Balls Roosevelt couldn't do it with with his Bull Moose Party as a two term ex president. If he couldn't do it, nobody can.

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[–] TOModera@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (8 children)

Wrong? No. But I would warn, as a fellow Canadian myself, that it didn't totally fix the problem.

Pierre Polievre (current right wing leader who walked with the Trucker convoy) is probably going to win at least a minority, and the more right wing parts of my family can't hide their hope he "finally helps the majority, rather then all these minorities getting help."

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[–] AlDente@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 months ago

It has before. We no longer see the Whig Party on the ballot. I'm also hoping we can do it again.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

US parties are much less locally run than Canadian parties are.

In the US you're basically just voting for a face on your preferred platform, and that platform is homogeneous across state lines.

The only place in the US that even has different parties is Puerto Rico and that's more about their specific debate about their status within the US.

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[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 35 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Also, even if he's not, are you really stupid enough that he'll be exactly as harmful to those causes as Donald "My Draft Platform is Literally 'Droppin' the Pretense we Doin' Fascism Now!'" Trump?

There are only two ways you could genuinely believe that, conspicuous use of the lense of privilege, and just being the most politically unaware moron this side of a YouTube comment section.

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[–] Triasha@lemmy.world 34 points 4 months ago (5 children)

I have not been so sure in my vote in any prior election. 2020 I had no doubts, but then trump launched a coup and Biden turned out to actually have a few progressive bones in his body. Biden has straight up impressed me with his accomplishments with the inflation reduction act, chips act, infrastructure bill, and various other accomplishments.

Trump is scarier now than he was in the last 2 elections. He has a roadmap to dismantle our democracy and leave us rocking from crisis to crisis like Argentina or Brazil. I think there would still be elections, but the corruption would blow off the charts and millions will suffer needlessly.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Their goal is to be loud and waste time and energy.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yep. Which is why I just block them and don't look back.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Don't block them, it allows them to spread their bullshit more easily.

[–] kinther@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago (2 children)

CLASSIC LINKERBAAN

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 19 points 4 months ago

Agreed, but I"m not looking to name/shame here (that may also violate the community or LW rules).

The point is we all know who at least a good portion of the "usual suspects" are.

[–] jwelch55@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

First person I blocked, but wasnt/won't be the last I'm sure

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[–] Agrivar@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Is one of those "usual suspects" here in this post, arguing with every pro-Biden comment?

(forgive me for asking, but we DON'T "all know who most of the "usual suspects" are.")

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