Yupp
Hey, this isn't working
Yeah, we know it sucks
We should change it
Oh, absolutely not! that's crazy talk!
this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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Hey this isn't working
Yes it is, it's out preforming every other system.
We should change to other system
No uprooting our entire system to swap to a system that has failed every time it's implemented is crazy.
"Outperforming" here means extracting as much wealth as possible and consolidating it in the hands of a few. All the while being an absolute detriment to the health of the environment and people it uses to extract said wealth.
But ya! Outperforming!
It can do all that while still generating more wealth for the average person raising their standard of living.
Sure buddy. Western standard of living has long been propped up by keeping externalities external. Exploitation is the name of the game
Can you give an example of capitalism keeping externalities external so I can understand what you mean here?
Environmental damage is a big one. Basically anytime some cost is due, such as pollution, but corporations ignore cleanup, and thus the cost. That bill is still due eventually, and it’s left to others to pay the price
Bananas. There's a reason they're 69 cents a pound despite coming from Central America whereas apples are like 4-5 times as much and mostly come from US orchards.
We know Capitalism has failed every time, that's why we want to abolish it.
Which countries have been successful in implementing your preferred alternative?
What do you mean by "successful?" Is there a metric you want to look at specifically? There are numerous metrics we can track and compare with Pre-Socialist conditions.
As for what countries have implemented "my preferred alternative," this is also an undeveloped fragment. No system can or should be 100% my personal preference, every country has different conditions, and simply copying others isn't how systems are run.
To answer your question, numerous countries have become Socialist. The USSR and PRC are the biggest examples, and for metrics both countries doubled life expectancy, eliminated famine, tripled literacy rates, and generally industrialized as compared to the Tsarist system or under the Nationalist KMT, respectively. They had and have numerous problems, corruption in the USSR and the Cultural Revolution under Mao, but conditions for the average person rapidly improved.
I am not advocating for copying these systems 1 for 1, but learning from what worked and what didn't. It seems that eliminating the profit motive and focusing on satisfying needs through servives like free healthcare and education makes a huge difference in a population.
"We" being an extremely small subset of the population.
"We" being the majority of the people on the site you're on, especially the instance.
Exactly so an extremely small subset of the population. Which is why capitalism is not being abolished and no one cares about criticism of capitalism but people gets annoyed when people start trying to implement other systems.
Capitalism won't be overthrown by just convincing people of better. Capitalism is overthrown when material conditions decline due to issues like the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall.
Criticism of Capitalism is big business. Being against big business is big business. Laying out an actual plan to abolish the ability for massive organizations to leech off of the majority of people is much more difficult to establish as a stable market commodity.
now now, don't upset dollar democracy, how else can we change the world if we can't buy it in the market? All alternatives, nicely packaged to be found in the market.
Hey, I'll get behind any new system proven to work. Issue is, all the currently active systems are just variations of older ones, and Capitalism is simply the best one we've had so far.
What would count as being "proven to work" that doesn't also disqualify Capitalism?
Any long-running system that in most instances makes the lives of most ppl better. I can't say I've done extensive research myself, but when a huge majority of people knowledgeable on the topic say the same thing I'm inclined to take their word for it.
Cool, so you should be a Socialist, or should at least do some research on Socialism. Capitalism is generally disqualified by your definition if you take the international effects of Capitalism into consideration as well.
You didn't spend much time in Barcelona in 1936, right?
Not aware of what happened there. Feel free to enlighten me.
(I mean, neither did you)