this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
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Despite its name, the infrastructure used by the “cloud” accounts for more global greenhouse emissions than commercial flights. In 2018, for instance, the 5bn YouTube hits for the viral song Despacito used the same amount of energy it would take to heat 40,000 US homes annually.

Large language models such as ChatGPT are some of the most energy-guzzling technologies of all. Research suggests, for instance, that about 700,000 litres of water could have been used to cool the machines that trained ChatGPT-3 at Microsoft’s data facilities.

Additionally, as these companies aim to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels, they may opt to base their datacentres in regions with cheaper electricity, such as the southern US, potentially exacerbating water consumption issues in drier parts of the world.

Furthermore, while minerals such as lithium and cobalt are most commonly associated with batteries in the motor sector, they are also crucial for the batteries used in datacentres. The extraction process often involves significant water usage and can lead to pollution, undermining water security. The extraction of these minerals are also often linked to human rights violations and poor labour standards. Trying to achieve one climate goal of limiting our dependence on fossil fuels can compromise another goal, of ensuring everyone has a safe and accessible water supply.

Moreover, when significant energy resources are allocated to tech-related endeavours, it can lead to energy shortages for essential needs such as residential power supply. Recent data from the UK shows that the country’s outdated electricity network is holding back affordable housing projects.

In other words, policy needs to be designed not to pick sectors or technologies as “winners”, but to pick the willing by providing support that is conditional on companies moving in the right direction. Making disclosure of environmental practices and impacts a condition for government support could ensure greater transparency and accountability.

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[–] dinckelman@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago (8 children)

So when exactly is all of this going to stop? First we had town-scale crypto farms, that were juicing enough energy to leave other people with no electricity. Then we switched to NFTs, and the inefficient ever-growing blockchain, and now we're back to square one with PISS, and it telling people to put glue on pizza, and suicide off the golden gate bridge

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 months ago

It's going to stop when the price of energy reflects its external cost. Externalities are very well understood by economists, so big oil has convinced us to go after consumers instead.

We need a Green New Deal, not a villain of the week.

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[–] doylio@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 months ago (11 children)

This isn't a good situation, but I also don't like the idea that people should be banned from using energy how they want to. One could also make the case that video games or vibrators are not "valuable" uses of energy, but if the user paid for it, they should be allowed to use it.

Instead of moralizing we should enact a tax on carbon (like we have in Canada) equal to the amount of money it would take to remove that carbon. AI and crypto (& xboxes, vibrators, etc) would still exist, but only at levels where they are profitable in this environment.

[–] ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

If someone wants to use a vibrator that consumes an entire city's worth of yearly energy consumption each day then I'd say that they shouldn't be allowed to do that. Making excessive energy consumption prohibitively expensive goes some way towards discouraging this at least.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

If someone wants to pay that much for energy and it's priced at a level that makes it sustainable, who are we to say it's not worth it?

The main argument I've seen against higher prices for things energy and water is that it would place an undue burden on low-income people, but that's one of the many problems that could be eliminated in its entirety by a universal basic income program. Even if it's just a bare-bones program that only covers the cost of an average person's water and energy needs, such a system would give everyone an incentive to conserve when possible, and it would do it without burdening people who can't afford it.

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[–] StaySquared@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Of course it would.. lmao are you kidding me? Have you never seen a server farm? Hell NSA has huge warehouses of servers.

Last year, before I joined this organization, IT decided to get off Microsoft's cloud service because after some calculations they realize that on-prem hosting was significantly cheaper than cloud hosting. Now I believe more and more organizations small and large/enterprise are getting off cloud or doing a mixture / hybrid because the costs are not justifiable.

And for AI? Requiring GPUs? Huge energy consumers.

[–] trslim@pawb.social 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Wow, AI really will kill us, just not in the way anyone imagined

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[–] PanoptiDon@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

AI companies*

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Me: ChatGPT, can you create a system that's capable of powering your systems in a environmentally sustainable way?

ChatGPT: THERE IS INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

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[–] shadearg@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

The forefront of technology overutilizes resources?

Always has been.

Edit: Supercomputers have existed for 60 years.

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

AI Training is a flexible energy consumer, meaning it can be switched on and off at will, so that it can take advantage of excess solar power during the daylight, providing extra income to solar panel parks. The important thing to do is to install solar panels, and then AI training isn't an environmental problem anymore.

[–] SandbagTiara2816@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 months ago (6 children)

We already have a more elegant solution than training AI when solar arrays produce more electricity than the grid needs - batteries. It strikes me as a better option to save the energy for later use than to burn it off to train AI.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It looks like you and the commenter you replied to are talking about two different problems. You're talking about what to do about excess solar energy, they are talking about how to power AI training in an environmentally-friendly way.

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