[Transcription]
tinymoves
to be honest it would make me a lot more comfortable if you guys would show a little concern about trump running for president again. Do not inbox me and say you don’t like joe biden omg i already know. but can we show a little concern. about donald trump. being the republican candidate for president. for the third election in a row.
parentheticalaside
Also maybe you can focus a little more on how Trump won't stop fucking running and a little less on the incumbent president running for reelection once, which is the natural path that is not at all weird. Like, the fact that it's these same two guys again is Trump's fault, not Biden's. What Biden
is doing is normal. What Trump is doing is very much not.
theroguefeminist
Going to come out here and say this: if you do not vote for Biden, you are voting for Trump. | literally do not care what horde of leftists with the memory span of a goldfish come for me for saying this. A third party vote is no vote. No vote is a vote for Trump. If you care at all about saving democracy in this country long enough to elect someone better than Biden, vote for Biden. Not voting for Biden is a vote for a dictator and a vote for the end of democracy. As bad as things are, we saw they can get so much worse. And | do not want to hear the same people saying not to vote for Biden crying when shit hits the fan if Trump wins.
If you care about trans people's rights. If you care about abortion rights. If you care about immigrants’ rights. If you care about global warming. Literally any issue under the sun, will be made worse by Trump in every conceivable way imaginable.
| have a hard time fathoming how people are
still saying Trump and Biden are the same after everything that has happened. A quick Google
on Biden's policies on every progressive issue vs Trump will tell you the opposite. Yeah, Biden is a shitty moderate liberal who supports Israel. So
is literally every single other US president that has ever fucking existed. Voting for a third party candidate will not help Palestine. It will literally only escalate things and make them even worse if Trump wins. In every conceivable way imaginable.
If you aren't going to vote, then at least have the decency to stop pretending like what you are doing has any remotely positive impact. It does not. There is nothing virtuous or admirable about abstaining (and a third party vote is abstaining). We went through this in 2016. | thought people would have learned by now. But here we are again in 2024. If Trump wins, blood is on your hands and you didn't do even the one easiest thing you could do to stop it from happening.
synnefa-kyria
The DNC was never going to nominate another primary candidate over the incumbent, the sitting president, who is in charge of the entire Democratic party.
| don't think the sun shines out of Biden's ass, guys, but please look at the bigger picture here.
Our presidential election is not ranked choice and is not won by a majority of over 50%. It is a two party system that is won by plurality; whoever gets the biggest slice of votes, even if it's under 50%, is the winner and they take all. First the district, then the state, then the Electoral College. This is why third parties have little influence. This is why voting for them or not at all benefits the opposition. This is why Trump won in 2016.
A 2024 Trump victory is an not something we as a nation can bear - it's bad for us, and it is unseeakabl bad for Palestine because Trump's a far-right lunatic lacking morals and human compassion.
Not voting for Biden, third party or abstaining, will split the vote and cause a spoiler in favor
of Trump. See the 2000 Georee W Bush vs Al Gore election for reference. Take a long look at those razor thin mareins. Al Gore lost Florida
by 0.009%. Hell, walk down memory lane to the 2016 election. States where Trump won by a margin of 3% or less - Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin - would have won Hillary the Electoral College, 316 to 224,
We cannot fore et Russia's war on Ukraine either. Do you honestly think Trump will want to continue US aid to Ukraine? Really? The
guy who's all buddy-buddy with Putin and has Russia-supporting followers? He's been vocal about his lack of enthusiasm for supporting Ukraine, and has threatened to hamstring NATO - Ukraine's principal ally - should the situation escalate further.
Russia is angling towards a return of the Soviet Union's former territory - look at Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia (the country). Appeasement is not an option - that's a proven failure. A possible return to the Cold War status quo is horrifying, and there's every reason to believe they won't stop there, setting off a multitude of geopolitical tinder boxes. God above forbid any one of the parties involved sets off a nuclear bomb, tactical or ICBM.
24,670 notes
Someday I'd like to hear a rational explanation about why the worse the Republican is, the more conservative and uncharismatic the Dem has to be.
Like, if all that matters is stopping Republicans...
Why aren't we running someone that people like?
A Bill Clinton or Barack Obama type that actively went after the youth vote, opened a dialog with voters, and took feedback to make their campaigns more appealing?
Historically speaking, that's a slam dunk.
We can keep trying to berate the youth into voting, but the thing about 18 year olds is, there's always 18 year olds. Convince this batch to hold their nose, and we got to convince the next one again. Plus re-convirnce the old batch again. Someone that's 30 right now has spent almost half their life being told that they have no say in who they vote for, they just have to vote against trump.
How are people surprised they feel disenfranchised?
Why can't we try listening to the youth, and trust that as the future party moves further to the left, they stay with the party?
If only there was a post that explained pretty passionately and coherently how Trump wanting to end Democracy and kill a bunch of Palestinians and Ukrainians and Americans, and God knows who else, is objectively more important than all of that
I'm not trying to be an asshole or dismissive or anything, but you are commenting directly under a pretty clear explanation of why not electing Trump is literal life and death, by saying literally the exact type of "but I don't feeeeeeeelllll like it, isn't that important, too" that this person is pretty pointedly discrediting
Maybe be mad at the party who keeps putting forward shitty candidates rather than the people who are fed up with the shitty candidates? You can't have it both ways, saying every vote matters, and then also say but you have to vote for our old ghoul or you get someone worse. That's the establishment propaganda that thankfully some people have grown out of. I'm not even American but by God reading all this fucking biden apologist discourse has me feeling so fucking sorry for your country. Yeah trump is bad bit at least he owns who he is. Voting biden at this point would feel like a fucking moral failing. I'd probably still do it bit I'd never stop complaining about it and fuck all of you who expect people not to complain. Your system is blatantly screwing you over and you're just like "thank you more please. Please not the trump again"
Not voting or voting for trump is an objectively worse moral failing. No good options, choose the one that results in the possibility for positive change. A dictatorship does not have that possibility without a war.
I read up until "both ways". Honestly, I've read enough of these comments before to know what you're getting at.
To recap whatever comes to mind quick: 40% reduction in emissions by 2030, proper labor people at the NLRB leading to all these union gains, domestic manufacturing and infrastructure, massive increases in corporate tax to pay for all that stuff, gains in wages at the low end, reductions in wealth inequality. Biden's doing good.
You might not agree. But, as the nice lady pointed out, it doesn't really matter. He's who we got. Biden's who we got. It's either this guy or death. You wanna pick a better guy next time? Fuckin fantasic, if you wanna get involved with the Democrats or any other party and try to put up someone better, that sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
But the fuckin house is on fire and the kids are still inside and you're out there fistfighting with the firefighters, trying to stop them getting in, and while the whole thing is spreading you're saying I TOLD YOU WE NEEDED THE DIFFERENT INSURANCE COMPANY YOU GUYS ARE ALL FUCKIN UP YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE BETTER
Trump is the end of any of these better candidates and better than Biden progress that you say are your goal. He is the end of Palestine and Ukraine. He is the end of Hispanics in the United States; he already put some of them in concentration camps. Some of them died in there, some of their kids died in there, some had their kids taken away somewhere and still don't have them back. He has a detailed plan for how to take over next time, and do much more. He wants to put his political opponents in prison. He wants to make it illegal for the press to criticize him. He wants the military to seize the voting machines. He wants to shoot protestors. He talks about how he shouldn't have term limits. And, if he dies in office, that whole machinery is available for someone else who's maybe not the world's stupidest and most incompetent man to take over, and run it all for real. Like, for real for real.
Quit fuckin twisting it around. I don't care. This tumblr person is right. As pertains to this election, this whole thing of "oo nice try but this candidate's not good enough for me, you should have done better" is a pile of shit, and always has been.
Either say, yes we should vote against the end of the world, or admit that you're pushing for the option that's the end of the world. Quit twisting it around into something else, because that's the choice.
See you in four years when the next fascist is in the Republican Party and the democrats nominate a former KKK member and we're told by libs to vote for the KKK member or else people will die, and in 8 years when you tell us to vote for the little fascist over the big fascist. "Don't you understand a lot of fascism now is better than more fascism in the future?" Is what we'll hear all the libs crying if they get what they want
You musta missed the first paragraph
And, tbh, the rest of it too
But sure, go on, tell me how Clinton was a champion of progressivism and the party’s been betraying his legacy by moving to the right. Make it lyrical; make it convincing
here's what I'm saying: I'm for killing Hitler before he's genocides the Jews and everyone should be saying "assassinate Hitler before he kills all the Jews" not "vote for not-Hitler to save the Jews"
If you truly believe Trump is a genocidal tyrant, he should be dealt with like a genocidal tyrant, not given any quarter
Those aren’t mutually incompatible. I don’t think people should kill him, but the lackluster way the justice department has dealt with him like “oh ho him we have other things going on, we can get to the trial after the election” is a criminal dereliction of duty.
Yes, he should be in prison for being a proven-criminal tyrant. Instead we’re taking Lex Luthor on tours of the city and talking about hey he shouldn’t have killed all those people with that stunt last month, and also should we make him mayor, or this other guy, here’s a report on the pros and cons.
I believe Trump is a genocidal tyrant. Fascism shouldn't be legally allowed in Democracy. Democrats should not appease fascists by considering them worthy of human rights. When Hitler was elected into office, in hindsight, he should have been assassinated, not impeached. Keeping genocidal tyrants alive and electable means innocent people die.
You could have gotten it from the username, emerald dawn 45.
That could be a description of one of their stupid, ridiculous shirts.
Lmao I'm Canadian and trump is an asshole, but you guys are jokers with your 'everyone who doesn't like Biden is a Russian troll' nonsense.
"Bro there's a guy in the house WHO IS TRYING TO KILL US"
"First off: WHY are you bein so rude right now. I was in the middle of something."
Where do you think 'the party' comes from, the people who make these bad decisions? Are you active in local politics? Do you educate yourself and vote in local elections? Most people act like the only election there is, is the presidential election, and wonder why they feel disconnected from the choices. Well there are a million small choices going into who that pool of bad choices is winnowed from, and who is making backroom decisions playing into it, and most people are clueless how any of it works, uninterested to learn, and completely checked out. Well that's how we end up here.
Well, the current leader of the DNC was appointed by Joe Biden in 2021...
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/politics/jaime-harrison-dnc-chairman.html
Technically the DNC could vote against the president, but they didn't even do that to Obama. For details in who the ~477 people are and how it happens:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/23/13703720/dnc-chair-election-rules-members
From the rest of you comment, I think that link would be beneficial.
Especially this part:
You seem to think it's a lot more democratic than it really is.
Not at all, nor am I saying it's a good system. But the realities of how individuals shape the system and determine who is making discisions starts at the local level, and happens over time, and it does come to reflect the interests of those who choose to participate, and not those who don't. This is just the reality of how power operates.
So why did you ask
Like you disagreed with me, but now you're saying basically "of course it's like what you first said"?
The DNC is "the party" and the DNC is not governed by democracy.
That's the key issue. It's unelected nepotism and the people being placed in power have no idea how to win elections.
The president appoints people to the DNC, and the DNC is not shy about saying they have full control over who the next presidential candidate is.
This isn't a new problem, and because the only people who can change it benefit from it, they're not kicking themselves out of power.even if it means trump wins.
The solution to this is either reform from within, or by regulation. The former requires that involvement that I talked about, starting at the local level. That is how grassroots works. Reform has happened before. We did not use to even have democratic primaries.
We could argue about which of those two approaches is more feasible, but I would argue that any regulation from above is going to be incomplete and imperfect, and the people involved are going to game the new system just as they have before to their advantage and to hold onto power. The only long term solution is more involvement from below. Democracy cannot work with the minimal level of involvement that we have come expect.
Are we now to the point where we’re deifying Clinton? He had sex with a subordinate (likely more than one). His policies resulted in incarceration of minorities, and a decline in life standards for people at the bottom of the income distribution. You are NOT the first person who had to hold his nose while voting for the lesser evil, and frankly in his day the GOP candidate looked much better than it does now.
There is a persistent mythology among a certain type of Lemmy user (the type who also doesn't want to vote for Biden) that Clinton was a super-great progressive president and the Democrats moved to the right since then.
I had one just recently who was telling me about how they and all their progressive friends were super happy about how he balanced the budget
It's funny because even leaving Biden out of it, I remember the Carter -> Clinton -> Obama arc, and what progressive and activist people in the mid to late 90s were feeling about it, a little bit differently than that
Absolutely not
All we're talking about is campaigns, and how likely they are to result in a Dem president.
Because, as Biden loves to say:
All that matters is beating trump.
The crime bill?
That was literally Biden's baby... Pretty sure he's still bragging about it and saying it was a great idea...
Mate, I've been doing it for almost 20 years.
08 Obama is the only time I actually wanted the person I voted for to win.
Some of the younglings have never even seen let alone participated in an election where we even thought we had a progressive option.