this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2023
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[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Welfare programs in capitalist countries are not socialism. "Socialism program" would be collectivisiation of the means of production.

[–] fomo_erotic@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Welfare programs in capitalist countries can be socialism.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (12 children)

No, by definition they aren't. You added the "-ism" incorrectly, you should stop at "social programs".

[–] emerty 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Must of missed the whole market socialism thing in the Nordics and under Blair in the UK?

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Market socialism examples are Yugoslavia and Poland in the 70's. Nordics have capitalism with (currently being cut) social safety nets, one of prime characteristics of socialdemocracy, ideology that do not promote socialism but capitalism with "human face", as Nomad said, based on Keynes work. Blair and his followers in many countries went much off even that into the neoliberalism.

[–] emerty 2 points 1 year ago

Yep, I was wrong.

[–] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's not market socialism, at best it's called Keynesianism.

[–] emerty 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah you're right. I think it originated from Adam Smith? Vietnam would probably be described as market socialist

The Nordic model has social policies

Blair described his as an alternative to socialism

In the United Kingdom, Third Way social-democratic proponent Tony Blair claimed that the socialism he advocated was different from traditional conceptions of socialism and said: "My kind of socialism is a set of values based around notions of social justice. ... Socialism as a rigid form of economic determinism has ended, and rightly."[7] Blair referred to it as a "social-ism" involving politics that recognised individuals as socially interdependent and advocated social justice, social cohesion, equal worth of each citizen and equal opportunity.

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