this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
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Just to remind everyone, the issue is that we're funding a genocide. FFS, I don't want Trump to beat Biden either, but how warped and hollow is your worldview that you can look at kids getting their skulls cracked open for protesting a genocide and think, "Wow, look at those entitled single-issue voters." Truly a deranged take.
I personally saw this comic as a criticism of people vowing to vote third party because they don't like how Gaza is being handled, damning all the issues including Gaza to a dark future.
Saying everyone who agrees with this comic loves genocide and munches popcorn while protestors are being beaten bloody is certainly a take.
Believe it or not, but fueling this "one or the other" rhetoric hurts Democrats most. Even if the 3rd party candidates aren't viable, the people that would support Jill Stein or Cornel West are far more likely to vote for liberal candidates down-ballot. Extensive studies on voting outcomes show that disincentivizing voting outside the 2 party system is far more likely to keep progressive voters home.
No one is going to kiss your ass because you’re folding your arms and pouting. That’s not how things work in the real world.
Glad you recognize the issue with Biden's tactics in regards to opposition of the genocide.
Sorry if the following makes little sense, but your comment is interesting and I am quite buzzed on my evening off.
In terms of outcomes, I don't see the difference between someone not voting and voting third party for president in a first past the post system. If you throw away your vote, it's the same as staying home.
I think the best way to move a party in a direction is to have the right people join the 2-party system and change it from within.
That's done by winning primaries. AOC primaried the Chair of the fucking House Democratic Caucus and has been campaigning left very publicly since. Asa Democrat, not a more Left and irrelevant party.
But they also have to be able to win general elections, as we saw many of the craziest Trumpers in 2022 win their primaries, being ideologically what their base wanted, and get their lunch eaten in the general election.
Drunk TLDR: Work the two party system, don't scare the normies and sink the boat, slow boil the country into a brighter future
Here's the thing though. You're not just voting for the president this year. Telling leftists to get in line to support a candidate complicit in genocide is similarly likely to put Trump in the office. If you don't want to see Trump elected, encourage voting generally. That includes supporting people that want to see Cornel in the office. Because the brass tacks is that most people lean to the left in this country. Telling them that a vote for "their guy" is pointless, keeps them home. It's a factor as to why he was elected in the first place.
Here's the thing though.
Supreme court is already captured. Congress is nearly captured.
If Trump wins, there's a good chance there won't be another chance at resolving things even remotely democratically.
I've voted 3rd party in the past when I lived there. But this election really is gonna be one where they can't be affordable to do.
This is a "lose the battle to fight the war" situation, because end of the day, ANY choice you make will still result in Palestinians being genocided.
Voting for Trump, Biden, 3rd Party, or None.
Unless you yourself have some military training and think you have a shit at straight up assassinating Netanyahu as a random like rogue assassin, there's nothing you or I can do about that other than protest and boycott. You can still protest the genocide and criticize Biden. You can do campaign for 3rd party support elsewhere. You can still do so when congressional elections come.
But you won't have that option at all if Trump wins. The damn dude is literally calling himself a dictator.
Jan 6th happened.
You have to lack complete critical thinking skills to think, at this point, giving the guy who's in the same ideological bed as Putin and Netanyahu a good chance at the presidency, is a good idea.
My brother in christ, he already has a chance at winning because this country clearly has no mechanism to bar insurrectionists from running, despite a constitutional amendment. I'd also appreciate it if you stopped assuming I haven't been thinking critically about how I'm going to vote. I'm not going to sit on my ass if he wins, I'm going to fight like hell. I hope you do too. Because it's already a possibility.
Do you know which state has the longest running streak of progressive voting presidential elections, as well as some of the highest voter turn out in the country? It's Minnesota. This beautiful state has been voting to the left since 1974 for Walter Mondale, and consistently has voter turnout of at least 70%. In 2022 the state legislature won a trifecta state government and passed swathes of progressive liberal bills. Do you know our secret? We don't vote shame, we just encourage everyone to vote their truth.
You think the dictator in chief Trump will let you vote???
Yes, you do lack critical thinking.
If by "fight like hell" you mean armed resistance, go ahead. That'll be the only option left for change at that point. He's not going to give up power the second time. He barely did the first.
Glad I left the USA. Dumbasses like you that have zero tact proved and continue proving there's no hope over there.
I'd like to know what specifically leads you to believe I'm not critically thinking.
I've already mentioned how in the first post of mine replying to you.
Unfortunately I do not have a Master's in Teaching so I could clarify any better at this point.
lmao, so you're just assuming things about me and trying to pin me as "lesser" because I disagree with you. I'm glad you left too, that's one less toxic "vbnw" person in this country. I will never support a genocide. That is my line. If you can't respect that, then go fuck yourself.
Not assuming anything. You've already shown what you lack.
You're still supporting genocide no matter what voting choice you take, including not voting at all.
Unless you stop paying your taxes at least. I don't pay US taxes, therefore I'm actually, literally, not supporting a genocide. Leaving the country and renouncing your citizenship is a way to not support the immoral things the USA does too.
Now all that's left for you to decide is if you'll be allowing a greater evil to make things worse, including future genocide - and you have chosen to do so.
I'm no formal teacher, but I'll still take a crack at it.
Let's say you're (by force) part a large military group of 1,000 soldiers and a general. This general has ordered y'all to commit some heinous things.
Soon, however, a new general has a chance at leading the group. He's one who has done so in the past. He promised he'll do things that to you, are much worse. He even has an accomplished record.
Both generals either way have agreed to help a foreign army to annihilate a village currently being razed; but the current general at least might not destroy more future villages, while the new one who wants to take power promises he will, and he'll go further. In the army you're currently in, 450 support the new general, 400 support the current general, 20 don't care , 30 don't support either but only pick the current one because they think it's better than the other, and 50, like you, don't want either.
Now, obviously you dislike both generals. And there's this third general who says he's opposed to destroying villages. So you want to join his side.
Problem is, his army is only 10 people. Even if you got all 50 of those from your current army to support him, 60 of you can't stop anything. Especially not the village
So now I'll end this with a question: what's the best option to stop future villages from being destroyed further?
Aside from lacking all nuance and missing several real world factors in the US I'm sure you missed since you're not American, I'll play. Go to the next village with the 12-62 professional soldiers and train them into a guerilla army to violently oppose all those who wish to destroy them. Who would have guessed that military analogies don't fucking work for politics.
Let's do our best to put that into real world solutions:
Neither Biden or Trump are willing to do any of those. Electing either will mean we continue to sit and watch as women and children are murdered and thrown into mass graves.
I said I don't live in the USA anymore. I've mentioned multiple times indirectly this fact. Practice reading comprehension.
You're right, nether will do either of those things. 1 however WILL however try to ensure that those things are not possible, while also doing their best to end any shreds of democracy that do remain AND will lead to even MORE support for more deaths.
So, considering that neither will do either of those things, but one will make things worse for future Palestinians (there's still the West Bank), and push forward into maximum the "women and children are murdered and thrown into mass Graves", explain to me now how THAT'S better? Or how you not doing everything possible to stop an even higher amount of deaths is more moral than checks notes allowing it to happen?
Again, your taxes are still supporting what's happening. You're still supporting what's happening. The final question is, do you want your money being used to turn kids into skeletons, or do you want your money being used to turn kids into skeletons ×2?
Because that's the choices you're actually being given when it comes to voting and doing something.
Of course, if you literally don't want to participate in either, then go ahead, I encourage that. Cause good trouble. Don't pay taxes, serve your time, get others to do the same. Or move away and renounce your citizenship. Put your mouth where your money is. You talk the talk but I don't see you walk the walk. Stop pouting on here about what's happening and instead do something. Stop commenting about how both are bad and start saying "so that's why you should join me in doing ___", and then actually do something about it. I've done my time and paid my dues, let's see if people like you do the same.
I know you won't though. It's easy to protest, it's hard to take action. I've seen it plenty, and that's why I finally decided to literally no longer participate in contributing to that system or bother fighting. You can't fix an utterly broken culture.
Distinction without a difference. You now have degrees of separation from US politics that guarantee you'll miss the less obvious stuff that have big impacts.
Are you paying? Because I can not afford to uproot my life. I can't even afford to drive over the US border into Canada, and I live in fucking Minnesota. I have 0 control where my taxes go. I do not support genocide. The Government extracts money from me under threat of violence, and I'm far more useful as an activist getting arrested or killed in direct action than I ever would as a felon in prison for tax evasion. That's right. I'm willing to die violently to stop the US government from funding this genocide. I already do everything I can with the limited amount of money and free time I have. Don't pretend you know me.
Yeah yeah, I've heard it plenty but never hear of it, even in the underground.
Funny you're willing to not vote to prevent a worse outcome, and supposedly even willing to get killed.
But not to go to prison for not paying taxes in protest.
Yeah, totally believable.
Maybe you should ask yourself if you know yourself instead.
PS: Moving to another country and renouncing citizenship isn't supposed to be easy. But I never said doing the right thing ever was. It's also still not the only option.
I have $7000, total. Last I checked, you can't move anywhere with that. I'd be homeless in less than 2 months, in a strange country and with 0 connections. Tax evasion is an act of indirect civil protest. I prefer direct action. I know who I am and what I value. You're condescending, presumptive, and unwilling to place aside pride to understand perspective. You are the reason Europe think Americans all act that way. Sincerely, go fuck yourself.
You can actually move to Finland with the amount.
I know because I'm having a friend move here who only has coincidentally slightly more than that. They're coming August 31st are currently cramming Finnish.
Prefer direct action? Get many to protest with you then to not pay taxes until the government agrees to stop aid to Israel.
And no, Europeans think of Americans that way because Americans don't show real effort. There's constant talk of putting your life on the line for a cause but then, never do. I already have for the nurse strike in Finland. What have you done?
Moving to Canada costs about 2.5k + moving fees. It's surprisingly easy to emigrate.
Presidential votes are different because the Electoral College. A third of my state's 2020 voters could abstain from voting Biden or vote 3rd party and Biden will still most likely win. So the calculus is way different than for say, congressional offices. Unless you're one of the say 100,000 or so people living in a swing district in a swing state your vote for president is probably already decided due to the Electoral college.
It would take a catastrophically unpopular policy stance to threaten the electoral college vote in my state, and the same is true for most US states.
Well, first of all, that is abso-fucking-lutely not my take, thanks. Secondly, if it's just about third party voters, why is that young person sitting front of tent? Could have gotten the anti-Biden point across with a Genocide Joe shirt. Could have really driven the third-party thing home with a Jill Stien shirt. But no, the artist depicted a white kid in a Palestinian keffiyeh, holding a Palestinian protest sign, and placed them in front of a tent. The artist is clearly pointing at the campus protesters, who've been on the receiving end of an extraordinary amount of state-sponsored violence for their activism, and saying, "look how unreasonable these people are."
An objectively correct one, yes.
There's one simple thing Biden could do... A moral thing even.