this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2024
743 points (97.3% liked)

World News

39102 readers
3101 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and other European leaders have applauded the US for passing a vital €89 billion aid bill which has been struggling to make it through the House of Representatives for months.

The House swiftly approved roughly €89 billion in foreign aid for Ukraine, Israel and other US allies in a rare Saturday session as Democrats and Republicans banded together after months of hard-right resistance over renewed American support for repelling Russia’s invasion.

With an overwhelming vote, €57 billion in aid for Ukraine passed in a matter of minutes, a strong showing as American lawmakers race to deliver a fresh round of US support to the war-torn ally. Many Democrats cheered on the House floor and waved blue-and-yellow flags of Ukraine.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

There's a lot we could unpack there - e.g. it makes me all the more glad that they passed this, since we've already spent it either way!?

One quick item: Biden has stated that the aid can be there this week. He was prepared to spring on this. As you already said, this package was mostly to replenish already-spent funds, not as much directly to push forward with new ones. Although with that replenished stamina, I would expect to see new pushes happen as well.

Another big item is that Ukraine is not a member of the EU or NATO. As such it is "entitled" to nothing - everything that is being offered is purely voluntary. So, compared to nothing, $60B USD is quite a lot? Hence why he is grateful, and rightly so.

Another is that the USA does not need to be the sole provider of this aid - not that I am glad for the pause, but given that it happened anyway, I was heartened to see other nations rise up and cover the slack. And now for the USA to join the right side of history - well, better late than never, and all the more so with an amount this big!:-)

As you pointed out, the biggest one is that there is a faction within the US government that looks to be wanting Ukraine to fail, or more precisely for Russia to win. If Trump "wins" the next election, one way or another (i.e. legally or... otherwise), the USA may even go so far as to join Russia against Ukraine?! But for now, even delaying that aid may hamper it enough for Russia to finish the job. Maybe. Even so, this particular aid package got passed. Come what may, this one is a success. It is as important to celebrate success as it is to call out failures - failing to do either is biased, and therefore wrong.

Speaking of, the USA may also fail one day, less due to direct Russian military intervention and more from an internal civil war. But not today, b/c again, come what may, this particular aid package got passed, whoo-hoo!:-)

[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The main problem is that most European nations essentially disbanded their military after the financial crisis. The European weakness has made it extremely difficult to deliver weapons so far. Thankfully the European war machine is now really picking up and is ready to take over in case of GOP shenanigans (unfortunately we are electing our own idiots and Moscow stooges so no guarantees ).

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 5 points 7 months ago

Russia can be smart... in some ways, sometimes (while also simultaneously dumb in others, as aren't we all?:-P). e.g. wasn't it 2025 that Germany was scheduled to eliminate its dependence upon Russian oil (or was it rather all?) for energy. Knowing this does seem likely to have influenced the timeline of events somewhat, seeing how in that regard at least (and some others) it was the perfect time to strike - i.e. if they had waited longer it would have become far more difficult?

And let's be blunt: if they had managed to take over what they wanted in that "three-day" timetable as initially planned, wouldn't Europe have simply let them have it? As we consider that, let us not kid ourselves here b/c this invasion has gone on for a decade at this point - Georgia, Crimea, the area west of Crimea, etc. - each time citing "no, I swear, this was all that I wanted, I won't do this ever again, I promise". So if EU nations are somehow shocked, Shocked I tell you, SHOCKED, that those leopards would not one day turn and eat THEIR faces off, then I don't know what to tell them...

However, I was pleased to note how e.g. Germany quickly turned its economy upside down and started mass-producing weapons. They tend to be a very smart and technically-minded people, so I for one have no problems believing that it at least could have been a strategic move on their part to "not have weapons", when they were not immediately needed, yet also be ready to start producing them at a moment's notice when the need for such became apparent - as you pointed out.

Likewise but with very different factors involved, those nations physically closest to Russia may have wanted weapons yet been afraid of enraging the bear by having them? So what I am trying, probably ineptly, to say is that it may not "purely" be due to willful ignorance on behalf of every EU nation, to lay down those older-style weapons that cost a lot yet haven't been necessary for literally decades. A better cost-to-benefit ratio may have been to invest in something like energy independence, so long as the military factor was covered at some very minimal level.

Plus technology changes so fast... as we are seeing live in Ukraine, "tanks" were not the big thing, especially as Russia heavily misused them at first, compared to drones, right? So EU nations were "not prepared", in the specific sense, but by investing into robotics and batteries and such, the converse does not seem quite true either i.e. we cannot say that those same nations were not entirely "unprepared" either?

That is why it is so amazing that Ukraine is holding off Russia, essentially acting as the shield for the entire fucking world, making Russia expend all of its military might & resources upon it, which could otherwise be put to use elsewhere, into saving up and preparing for the next target, which they ofc according to Russa "we have no plans for, b/c Ukraine is all that we want, we promise"!

Ukraine really does deserve aid then - they've earned that. But... there are >100 Republicans who seem to believe rather that Russia has "earned" the right to take whatever they want. And that should worry us all, around the world.

[–] btaf45@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Speaking of, the USA may also fail one day,

And yet so far the USA has been the most successful country in the world.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 1 points 7 months ago

I mean... that depends on what metric you are going by, I suppose.

Not by personal happiness, or by health outcomes, or "freedom", or safety, or education, or (non-military) technology, or ... well the list gets rather extensive.

To be fair, the USA did used to lead the world, e.g. being first if not to space then to the moon, and we sequenced the human genome, and computers were invented here, and there's Hollywood serving up movies and culture all over the world, etc., so I am not knocking any of the past achievements. Notably, after WWII we did get a bit of an "uneven" start compared to countries like the UK that were bombed by Germany whereas the USA emerged fairly unscathed, and yet we took that headstart and really went for it! We indeed were the most successful country in the world - unquestioned by almost anyone.

However, lately... well, "the economy" is still booming, but most average people are going to die significantly sooner than their parents generation did, possibly by a terrorist event such as a school shooting that we have nothing whatsoever to try to stop, health outcomes are abysmal, and many millennials and especially Gen-Zers strongly doubt that they will ever be able to afford a home, seeing how homes have become "investments" rather than places to live in, colleges costs have quintupled, most jobs today for younger people are "temporary" positions in the gig economy, etc. etc. etc.

You do bring up a good point: compared to the rest of the world we still do have it pretty good, in some ways. It is just that compared to how we ourselves used to have it e.g. 50 years ago, we are doing significantly worse, relatively speaking.

Look at almost any list, e.g. the top 10 scientific discoveries, or engineering accomplishments, and America barely makes those lists anymore. Other nations with drive & heart like India or China are sacrificing so that they can outpace us. That's fine I guess, they needed their turn:-). But at some point we should ourselves: what exactly makes us "successful"... these days?

You might think that I am one of those that hates America, but I do not think of myself that way, it is just that I am questioning our place and how it has changed over the years. Though perhaps I am simply paying attention to the wrong sources, so if you want to send me something to read or watch that answers that, I would like to learn. So far though, everything that I have learned lately ends up just depressing me b/c it at least appears to be a decay, and not just morally.