this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2024
1106 points (99.8% liked)

196

16449 readers
1857 users here now

Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.

Rule: You must post before you leave.

^other^ ^rules^

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] SaintWacko@midwest.social 87 points 6 months ago (30 children)

I read something once that made a lot of sense. For the left, freedom means "freedom from". For the right, freedom means "freedom to".

[–] Sloogs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (9 children)

I've heard it the exact opposite. Freedom to is positive freedom which tends to be a more social leftist or social liberal trait. Negative freedom (freedom from) is typically a more modern right wing or libertarian trait. But also you could have libertarian leftists or anarchists that lean more towards negative liberty, as well as fiscal conservatives that lean more towards positive liberty on social issues, so it's not fully a left/right thing.

Basically the difference is enabling people via common social framework that gives people options and social mobility vs complete non-interference by government or any other entity even if it limits options and social mobility for anyone but yourself due to their life circumstances.

Here's a quote from the Wikipedia article on positive liberty that backs up this interpretation of the to/from distinction. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty):

"Erich Fromm sees the distinction between the two types of freedom emerging alongside humanity's evolution away from the instinctual activity that characterizes lower animal forms. This aspect of freedom, he argues, "is here used not in its positive sense of freedom to but in its negative sense of 'freedom from', namely freedom from instinctual determination of his actions."

I don't know that I agree with that premise but it's an example of the to/from dichotomy being used in relation to positive/negative freedom just so you know I'm not making anything up.

[–] Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee 20 points 6 months ago (8 children)

Strange take.

In Europe, most want "freedom from". As in, freedom from hate speech, freedom from Nazis, freedom from gun owning cowards, freedom from bullying, freedom from corruption

Free speech is as outdated as handguns, if you want a peaceful life and happiness

Guess that's where all your problems are coming from 🤷

[–] Sloogs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I didn't invent that take if you think it's strange. Ironically these interpretations of liberty originally came from European philosophers, originally Rousseau I think, so take it up with them. 🤷🏻

I don't think they were thinking about in terms of freedom from hate but more like creating social structures that enable freedoms and try to balance out everyone's rights, like the right to exist, in the face of something like hate vs eliminating any social structures and cutting out any middle man that would not allow someone to hate whichever thing and whoever they want to.

[–] Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

originally came from European philosophers,

Yep, hundreds of years out of date

Times change, as do philosophies

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (26 replies)