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I don't mind other people doing things that are stupid. I do mind other people doing things that are harmful. The difficult part is finding where that line is, if and how to legislate it and what the implications are on other important societal values.
In this example of a cafe refusing to serve people based on race, I'm personally totally fine with that being illegal.
How do you ban such a cafe while also banning slavery? How do you draw a line between permissible and impermissible compulsory labor when you're drafting your Constitution to reign in future politicians?
It is not permitted to own another human being.
It is not permitted to discriminate against a human being based on a protected class such as race.
Is there some contradiction there that I'm not seeing?
Nah. The guy tried a false dilemma to move the posts a bit.
I think the reasoning is that since having a job is essential for almost everyone, by making it illegal to have a job in which one may refuse to deal with members of a protected class, the government is effectively compelling everyone who needs a job to deal with them, which might be seen as a form of forced labor.
That'd be a massive stretch. Getting paid to do a job you don't like isn't slavery.
From the libertarian point of view, being compelled to do something is bad even if that thing itself isn't all that difficult or unpleasant. I'm a pretty stubborn, libertarian-leaning person myself and I would resent doing even all my favorite things in the world if the government were making me do them.
I still wouldn't make the comparison to slavery myself, but I think that most people are missing how much anti-discrimination laws actually do restrict freedom of speech and of association because most people weren't going to engage in that sort of speech/association anyway. I would compare them to laws against boycotting Israel.
You're the one who made the comparison to it being slavery? There are plenty of things you're not allowed to say, why are you fighting against this instead of the right to make bomb threats?
No I'm not, @quindraco@lemm.ee is. As for bomb threats, the violate the non-aggression principle in a way that simply choosing to peacefully opt out of interacting with a person or group of people does not.
(And, for the record, I think that the Civil Rights Act in the USA is, on the whole, a good thing. I just don't think it's costless.)
I replied to you because you defended their position. So yes you are.
Who do you propose should enforce this non-aggression principle? And why do you think it's okay to tell someone what to say just because you find it aggressive? Just admit you're fine with limiting my freedom of speech you just think racists should be allowed to say what they wish as long as it isn't your definition of aggressive and move on.
how about having to wear out body and mind to earn money to not be excluded from the wealth society has produced? Or is that the part you gladly submit to?
Libertarians don't see it in those terms. Wealth doesn't belong to society, and therefore there's no implication that all members of society are entitled to it. Not having any wealth sucks and so does having to do onerous work in order to survive, but it's easy to imagine how if you were rich, you wouldn't want your money taken away and given to the poor, and so it's hard to fault the rich for feeling that way too.
I'm not seeing a problem with 'treat people as people regardless of their skin colour'.
Jobs having responsibilities is nothing new. If you don't like the responsibilities of a particular job, get a different one.