Women
A place for discussion, camaraderie, and advice.
For, from, and with women. Hi 👋
RULES:
--Be good to one another.
If you're not sure about what you're about to type, ask yourself: Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
--About, but not only for, women.
We are here to talk about, learn about, and wonder about women and their/our experiences. Men are allowed to post here, but only for the purpose of asking sincere questions about women or for advice related to a women in their lives they are trying to support.
--No bullies. No Creeps. No trolls.
No personal attacks, no misogyny, no misandry, ageism, racism, or otherwise hateful or disrespectful commentary.
--No selling products or services.
You can recommend products/methods that work for you, but soliciting clients or patients is not allowed. No advertising or self-promotions, including using this sub to drive traffic elsewhere.
view the rest of the comments
This might be a bit harsh, but I find them both conceptually very close to sexuality more broadly. And while sexuality makes the world go round, it is also the most boring aspect of humanity to debate—and the fact that it’s not important is precisely what makes conservatives’ strange obsession with it as well as the pop rise of genderisms the last decade in contrast, such a problem. They’re ultimately a waste of time in a world with more dire problems.
Personal preferences simply are not consequential if they don’t belong to you. And I wish everyone would move past it so things of paramount importance can have more energy spent on them.
Having said that…
I think the fact that hormone therapy and hormonal prescriptions for transitioning, both work so effectively, prove that the chemical origin of our emotional tendencies upon this “spectrum” as it were, are completely determinant of our preferences therein.
It is a fact that everyone can find within themselves pleasure in the indulgence of their own masculine or feminine qualities and experiences. Accepting that fact is more meta and a subject of one’s upbringing or lack thereof impacting the internal monologue about it.
When you love yourself, it’s all fun. :)
I would argue a bit with your first paragraph, though I find the whole of your sentiments well stated.
I think the question posed by OP is actually a critically important one to answer for each of us, within ourselves, and for all of us together (human race). The question really means "what do you feel entitled to, and what do you expect from yourself and others?"
Expectations and entitlements come to form the foundation of the relationship(s) we have with ourselves and others.
When you observe the "typically considered masculine" traits and activities, what would they lead you to believe "men" feel/are "supposed to feel" entitled to? Taking up space? Aggression? Leadership? And are these things typically expected of men?
For "typically considered feminine" traits and activities, what would we probably agree they lend themselves to, in terms of entitlements? Being entitled to nurturing others? Entitled to protection? Objectification/entitled to being an object? To being vulnerable? And are these things typically expected of women?
The implications of these entitlements are infinitely complex and include every commentary that can be made about society. Really look back at my last paragraph--women are entitled to vulnerability. We often call it an expectation that women are weaker, and that sucks, but it is also an expectation that women are naturally more vulnerable. What a crime, that we actively cut boys and men off from this, that it is so engrained in many cultures that men should avoid appearing or being vulnerable.
Figuring out what you feel entitled to, and what you don't, and how those perceived entitlements/lack thereof jive with who you are and how you actually wish to live on planet earth is critical to healing from, well, the trauma of living on planet earth. As is better understanding what you expect of others, and why.
A lot of our worst tendencies are born out of how we cope with the discrepancies between what we feel entitled to/what's expected of us versus how we actually want to live in the world. Or, what we feel entitled to versus how others want to live in the world.
I see the massive cultural focus on these kinds of questions not as boring, but as evidence that humans are figuring out how to move beyond these entitlements and expectations that chain us. We're shaking the shackles of primal social structure to make way for something else, new expectations of ourselves and others.
It took me a long time to understand the implications for me as a person of feeling entitled to objectification, for instance. Being a man's highly valued object is something many women strive for, unknowingly in many cases. Deeply internalized patriarchy will definitely do that to you. It takes a lot of introspection to see that in yourself and untangle it from your being. It's a scary process and there's a lot of shame involved, but beginning to be able to regard myself as just a person, to see myself as a beautiful, worthy creature, and love myself thusly, has made it worth the pursuit.
Similarly, I've known men who have struggled with masculinity and coming to terms with the fact that there are traits and activities that they simply do not feel entitled to because they are seen as feminine and, therefore, only women are entitled to them. I'm recalling in this moment a man I know who is terrified of becoming a father, because he is afraid of nurturing. He has never felt entitled to nurturing or to being a nurturer. He has focused all of his emotional energy on attempting to perfect male assertiveness, a general aloofness and air of "manly stoicism"--much like his father--and doesn't know how to give himself permission to nurture. He struggles to really be vulnerable with his wife because "he's supposed to know, supposed to care for her and make her feel safe"--what a web of sadness. Nothing to do with sexuality, everything to do with what all the world, including himself, has expected of him all his life (masculinity) because he was born with a penis.
Identifying what we feel entitled to "by birthright" is the beginning of untangling the falseness of gender expectations that we have for ourselves and others. "Who do I think am I supposed to be, and why do I think that?" is a good question to ask. "What does femininity or masculinity mean to you" is a great way to needle ones way inward, toward that question.
To me, answering that question in ourselves is the beginning of personal freedom and just being, of self loving. And if you love yourself, truly, I think it's pretty hard to get in the way of anyone else loving themselves, regardless of how they identify, or whether they "fit the mold" they were supposedly cast from.