I don't want to insult your country or system but I can't really wrap my head around your Justice system. I read many articles and one said "Norwegian prisons aren't place for further punishment. Freedom taken in ONLY punishment." I wonder how is it fair or just to victims? A man raped and murders innocent woman. Another one kidnapped a 10 year old boy for ransom and still killed him after random was paid. Or another man murdered a minority for nothing but racism, all those people had everything taken from them. Their LIFE! Everything they had and everything they were gonna have. How is like 12 years in pretty comfy "prison" proportionate in any way to what happened to victims? How is it fair victims lost everything while a perpetrator only few years of freedom?
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The original was posted on /r/sweden by /u/KrysPole at 2023-07-07 13:52:18+00:00.
weirdowerdo at 2023-07-07 14:00:34+00:00 ID:
jr0weqaThe punishment is taking away their freedom. The punishment isn't and shouldn't be torture and inhumane prisons like Afghanistan or whatever totally not concentration camps China has. Punishing for the sake of punishing will only create more crime down the road and only idiots would pick this, there's a reason why only 20-30% of criminals in Sweden and Norway ever commit a crime again while in the US of A it's over 80%. The Little Scandinavia project in Pennsylvania has been successful so far. The goal is to get these people to become normal and not a burden on society anymore.
So go soap box elsewhere.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 14:04:13+00:00 ID:
jr0wxejNowhere did I speak of torture . I am still confused how is simply having freedom taken away for few years only proportionate to what happened to victims.
weirdowerdo at 2023-07-07 14:19:13+00:00 ID:
jr0z1b0I don't think you even grasp the nature of having your freedom removed. You do not get to decide anything about your life. You're in prison. You do not have access to everything nor at all times. You're life is restricted and you have no freedom to visit family or friends. You have no freedom to roam freely, you have your cell and the places within the prison that you can be in. That's it.
You are forced against your will to be in a place for years to come or decades if the crime you've done was that severe. You simply do not understand what having no freedom means and how it affects an inmate if you do not think its proportionate. We don't need them to become more murderous if we start with punishing them for the sake of punishing.
We need these people to have their years or decades in a facility where we get them to not commit crimes again. When you've been locked up for say 20 years because you murdered someone at age 25 and you get out when you're like 45. That's 20 years of your life you're never getting back, 20 years where you did not have the freedom to do what you wanted with your life.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 14:30:15+00:00 ID:
jr10lieI suppose that’s a valid point. But from what I read, it seems Scandinavian prisons in general actually provide education to inmates and that inmates have freedom to go leave their cell during the day and go outside. That’s what I think is going too far. Ideally, I think prisoner should be locked in his cell whole day (maybe like an hour only if walk outside) and he shouldn’t be given any education or job skills.
ojsan_ at 2023-07-07 14:45:08+00:00 ID:
jr12pojWhen an inmate is released, they should be a better person than they were when they came into prison.
You speak of the victims, “what about the victims?”. Were I mugged, I wouldn’t call my perpetrator being given an education a miscarriage of justice. I would find some solace in them not being out on the street. I would not feel better knowing he’s eating Nutraloaf for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I find no peace in other’s suffering.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 15:19:12+00:00 ID:
jr17rlqThere is a difference between a mugger, a pickpocket, or a thief vs a rapist and murder. A man who raped and kills a young woman or a man who kidnaps a child for ransom and plans on killing him/her is different though. He doesn’t deserve anything but to rot in a small cell Forever without tv. And if he dares to complain, court should tell him “think of a poor woman you murdered!” And improve his conditions once he feels guilt and remorse. Genuine one.
ojsan_ at 2023-07-07 16:02:24+00:00 ID:
jr1ecu1Thankfully, we don’t have people who commit such crimes in our country.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 16:05:21+00:00 ID:
jr1eshmLucky you.
weirdowerdo at 2023-07-07 14:42:30+00:00 ID:
jr12c1eVery low risk inmates, think those who've driven 250km/h, done some narcotic, tax evasion can actually leave prison during days. When you murder someone you aren't getting that freedom at all. When you rape someone you dont get that freedom. When you kidnap people and kill them you dont get that freedom
Education is extremely important to get people back into society and be able to get a job so removing that is just fucking dumb. Just having them in cells 23/7 is dumb they'll just go mad and will never get better.
You're quite literally making sure they commit crimes again after they're released. Punishment for the sake of punishment does not work and your opinion on the matter is useless and not based in science any way.
Also you're not from here so why do you care and why do you think we give a shit about what people abroad think when our system literally works better than y'alls system?
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 15:52:24+00:00 ID:
jr1ctjiI am Polish and I am really hoping your lenient system won’t make it there. But valid points. Not sure if true though. From what I read it seems Scandinavian jails are very lenient and you even keep a right to vote.
twitticles at 2023-07-07 14:47:12+00:00 ID:
jr130idSo when the sentence is completed the prisoner should be set free having aquired no skills, thus being in a far worse off position and far more likely to resort to crime again instead of being able to find a legal vocation? The main point of our penal system is to reduce crime, and your suggestion would accomplish the exact opposite.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 14:05:18+00:00 ID:
jr0x2y1Also please be respectful in your answers. “This soap box somewhere else” isn’t very nice; I was only asking question.
DigglidMasta at 2023-07-07 14:13:40+00:00 ID:
jr0y9doYou're asking about norwegian prisons in a swedish sub and then ask people to be respectful when they just tell you what they think.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 14:16:27+00:00 ID:
jr0yndrI mean… I don’t like being told “go leave us alone”. I meant Swedish. I will edit my post if I can.
DigglidMasta at 2023-07-07 14:29:32+00:00 ID:
jr10i13People here are answering your questions, but you refuse to hear them. The person told you to go soap box somewhere else. You've been quite ignorant in your questioning and keep saying that you wanted to post in a norwegian group but couldnt, so you come to us instead. Like thats the same thing? You're the one being disrespectful.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 16:10:36+00:00 ID:
jr1fkzuOk I am sorry. I am willing to hear answers out. I just appreciate less harshness. But sorry if I disrespected you.
KrysPole (OP) at 2023-07-07 14:17:17+00:00 ID:
jr0yrjdThis is… I initially posted it in Norwegian community but they don’t accept fresh accounts.