Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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Let's vote against someone meh for not being left enough, there will surely be no negative consequences to voting against someone for not being left enough
"Being meh" is my new favorite definition of "enabling genocide"
Milosovich was meh.
Adolf Hitler was pretty meh
"But voting doesnt matter! Billions of dollars are spent and countless bills are passed to disenfranchise voters, but my opinion is def not bought and paid for by the very same to help enact their bullshit!"
Genocide is not meh. If we don't turn around on this then we aren't the US anymore. I'm not going to play shades of moral blackness. I was willing to play with grey shades because there was a possibility of moving this back to actually helping people instead of exploiting them. But now we're exploiting the lives of poor starving people for donor money.
refusing to vote is not giving trump anything. y'all keep misrepresenting the sentiment. the vote does not matter. when you vocalize that you intend to not vote for anyone in the ruling class, whether they are blue or red that really gets everyone talking and saying that you are handing the presidency to the opponent. as if the electoral college didn't do that when trump lost the popular vote to hillary. yes please tell me how i, one person on federated decentralized platform with no corporate sponsorship, am undermining democracy when we don't really have one that gives us real opportunity to control the government.
You're undermining democracy by NOT VOTING LMAO
It's literally that simple. The electoral college isn't a conspiracy theory, it just weights votes slightly unequally. Your vote is still counted and if more than like 55% of the country votes for someone they're getting in. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this. We're not North Korea, use your damn votes people!
You mean if you live in a battleground state. Everyone else lives in a state that would require a massive change.
Oh look we're supporting a genocide. I wonder if that's enough to do it?
Voting republican won't change that, in fact it will make that and several other issues much worse. We need reform but we can't achieve that if we don't have a democracy.
Nobody said they're voting Republican. This is very specifically about Gaza.
"Battleground state" means the vote could go either way. Anyways, how do we effect Gaza as American citizens again? I think it starts with a "v"...
Oh so now you're only worried about battleground state voters staying home?
Well fun fact, in several of those states the key demographic is Arab Americans. So I again wonder what one thing Biden could do to earn their vote?
No, but I'm not so blinded by ideology that I fail to recognize how important they are
you're right that its not a conspiracy theory, it is simply a conspiracy.
Not all idiots support Trump. Honestly, this is a good reminder. Apathy is still going strong and in lieu of truly understanding a system some folks would rather listen to an obviously broken gps and hard left straight down a boat ramp and into a lake.
This is so tiring constantly arguing with people like you. It's always either "Trump is the worst! I'm not voting for Biden!" or some conviction that they cannot enact change where their only attempts to create change is yelling loudly about how unfair things are with absolutely zero action. I'll give Republicans this much: As often as they disagree and argue with one another, come voting time they sure as hell put aside those differences and agree to support one person. Meanwhile the rest of us continue to argue about things like "Oh man, Biden has kept like two dozen promises and is working on keeping even more but oh geez he broke a handful. Just the worst person ever. I'm gonna abstain from voting!" and then have the gall to say they're making the right choice.
Like...fuck. Maybe it's time we stopped being so nice. Literal fascism is knocking and people's lives are at stake here in the U.S.; people are dying here too. Our apathy and willingness to turn a blind eye through patience and understanding has gotten us to this position. How much more before it finally runs out.
Sorry, I'm just so damned concerned. This is a pivotal time. We can have a chance to fix things, we just need to come together for once. Fuck.
Voting for biden will not fix things. It didn't fix anything from trumps presidency or before. Trans people are still losing their rights and Biden has done fuck all. The democrats always say that they can fix things then make up excuses as to why they couldn't when they knew they couldn't to begin with. Biden is a zionist, an ideology that is pretty fascist. Fascism has always been an amerikan quality. This used to be an apartheid state and some would argue it still is. this isnt just about biden. this is about countless times we have been given a controlled choice. democrats don't do shit when you vote for them. they certainly seem pretty worried now, maybe it will light a fire under their ass to do what needs to be done. Until then, I see no reason to vote either way. republicans are fucked and democrats are not an actual solution.
In the simplest terms: Biden may not be the answer. Trump and the GOP is a problem. With Biden holding another 4 years we, the people, can step up. We'll have that chance. If Trump and the GOP gain hold we probably won't, not without something else pushing that change.
A chance. That's what we need. I feel people are at that point. You see it everywhere. The barely contained anger and frustration from the Left. With Trump we aren't likely to get that chance. With Biden we have four years to stop talking and start standing.
Ive been hearing this same line my whole life. "This is the most important election! And this one too, and that one, and the next one!" Im fighting right now by refusing to vote for either. Look how effective it is at getting them to squirm. They are paying attention to people refusing to vote, not yall that they already have in the bag. We've had four years of biden and we've been fighting for him tondo what he said he would. He hasnt. So where the fuck have you been? Sounds like sitting on your ass waiting for others to start the fight. Its already rolling, shut up and get in
You seem to derive way too much pleasure from making other people who are trying to do the right thing uncomfortable or angry.
If everyone refuses, we lose. Quite frankly it's a stupid idea because if your little gambit fails, we're actually fucked. This isn't silly Bush or broken Nixon. They did not compel a coup upon our Capital. Now that base is even more riled and more ready. Yes, the soundbite is this and that is the "most important". The Republican frontrunner called for a Coup. He refused to give up office peacefully. He is in countless court battles. The fucking world is screaming to not let Trump into office and now is when you want to be stubborn?
Holy fuck, my dude.
Biden winning doesn't mean we stop pushing for positive change. It means we are essentially guaranteed the chance to push for four years. The "Dems/Biden doing nothing" isn't just on them, it's also on us for refusing to present a unified, cohesive front for fucking decades. So pull your head out of your ass and balance that risk. Fuck this up and pray some dude in sunglasses offers you a red and blue pill, cause shit likely to worsen significantly.
No its not. AIPAC will continue to silence progressives. establishment democrats will continue to put profit over people.
no its not. not when you have establisment dems doing that all themselves when progressives speak up
it will regardless. both parties are denying the seriousness and gravity of climate change. the dems barely pay lip service to it. they certainly aren't doing anything meaningful about it. you think that dems are gonna stop trying to silence college protesters about palestine? you think biden will save the cop city protesters being charged with terrorism for occupying a forest? is biden going to put a stop to the other cop cities being built all over the country that are specifically creating urban warfare centers so they can be better at QUELLING PROTESTS?
if this is such a serious time, maybe you should stop worrying about what one person is saying they will do with their vote and spend what y'all consider to be the end of days with the ones you love. we will still be here actually trying to effect change by sending a message that we will not tolerate it anymore and make sure it is detailed why.
Okay. Let's make this simple:
You've established that not voting is a hill you're dying on. What else could others be doing to affect change? What active steps, events, or anything else are you doing that we can do which will increase the chance to make a difference?
if i woke up tomorrow and there was a permanent ceasefire, bidens approval rating would immediately recover. i wouldn't vote still but i know a lot of people are taking a stand and saying no because of the ceasefire. 50% of dems that voted for biden think israel is committing genocide: https://jacobin.com/2024/02/rashida-tlaib-gaza-michigan-primary-biden
calling on officials to call for a ceasefire or resign from their positions. use your time to educate yourself on the history of america as an apartheid state and tell others.
organize a general strike. there may be talk of this already that i am not aware of.
talk to your local unhoused folk. talk to your local disabled.
give money to people on the street. you're socioeconomically closer to them than to biden and other establishment politicians.
tie yourself to a piece of industrial equipment and disrupt non-urgent commerce. this is obviously a risk to your life and freedom so i wouldn't expect anyone to just be able to do this. also if you're disabled that would be harder of course.
i think about what happened with the land reform movement in china that happened long, but not too long ago. we cannot advocate for that tho but it was effective at shifting power from the ruling elite to the oppressed.
"So you think its an absolute, i will use this to my advantage in negotiations to change my behavior"
Ok and this prevents you from voting how?
It doesn't. That's not the only reason I'm not voting. I'm not voting because it concerns democrats that I am not voting for them. Maybe instead of being concerned with someone that is using their constitutionally protected right to choose not to vote, you should listen to the criticisms and take a stand. Maybe if democrats fulfilled their promises, there wouldn't be growing discontent with them.
Wouldn't calling your representatives and notifying them of your dislike of their policies be even more effective?
If you have to defend your actions by saying "uhhh ok but it's not illegal to do that" then your reasoning is bad and your actions are likely bad too
Kind of hard to do when we're only half of the government. I'll let you know next time we have a supermajority (admittedly we could have done more last time we had one).
What makes you think i havent? All you get is an answering machine anyway
y'all are acting like im committing a cardinal sin by not participating in complying with a genocide
and how many more times will they lead us on. if they know that they cant fulfill it, why say it?? they constantly say we will do this, and this and that and then we get nothing but excuses citing conditions or factors that were well in play before they got the vote. intentional false advertising
Realistically how do you expect this to work? Really think about it, the only thing that makes sense is to campaign on what you WANT to be the case. Unless you're intentionally saying things that you personally wouldn't want, all you're doing is advertising what you want to do as a candidate. It's impossible to know what will actually get done.
Western democracy originated in ancient Greece. This political system granted democratic citizenship to free men, while excluding slaves, foreigners and women from political participation. In virtually all democratic governments throughout ancient and modern history, this was what democracy meant. An elite class of free men made all the decisions for everyone. Before Athens adopted democracy, aristocrats ruled society, so "rule by the people", or the idea of a government controlled (in theory) by all its (free) male citizens instead of a few wealthy families seemed like a good deal. But really it was just a new iteration of Aristocracy rule rather than the revolution it's painted as. The rich still rule society by feeding voters carefully constructed propaganda and keeping everyone poor, overworked and desperate to be granted basic needs by the state.
In democracies today, only legal citizens of a country are granted democracy. In a lot of countries, people who have been convicted of a "crime" are denied the right to vote, regardless of how long ago they served their sentence. In the US, this is used to deny voting rights to minority groups, who make up a large proportion of the prison population.
In some societies only a small minority group are allowed to participate in the democracy. In Apartheid South Africa, the minority group (European settlers) granted themselves democracy and excluded the native majority, using democracy to deprive the native population of the rights granted to European settlers. Anarchy, of course, is an absence of government; of rulers. Democracy aims for the individual to be governed, ruled, controlled by others.
Yeah, and being held accountable by other people making laws serves a very important purpose. Anarchy doesn't work because you're calling on individual people to enforce the vague collective notion of "wrongdoing", which can trigger a sort of prisoner's dilemma about enforcement.
Democracy has forever been synonymous with class based societies. It has split entire countries into two barely-distinctive political parties (conservative and "progressive") that are nevertheless permanently at each other's throats. Even in its most libertarian-friendly forms, it has constantly failed to avert hierarchy, coercion and the authoritarian machinations of majority-groups.
Despite the issues IMO the way to fix democracy is not less democracy.
the problem is democracy: Western democracy originated in ancient Greece. This political system granted democratic citizenship to free men, while excluding slaves, foreigners and women from political participation. In virtually all democratic governments throughout ancient and modern history, this was what democracy meant. An elite class of free men made all the decisions for everyone. Before Athens adopted democracy, aristocrats ruled society, so "rule by the people", or the idea of a government controlled (in theory) by all its (free) male citizens instead of a few wealthy families seemed like a good deal. But really it was just a new iteration of Aristocracy rule rather than the revolution it's painted as. The rich still rule society by feeding voters carefully constructed propaganda and keeping everyone poor, overworked and desperate to be granted basic needs by the state.
In democracies today, only legal citizens of a country are granted democracy. In a lot of countries, people who have been convicted of a "crime" are denied the right to vote, regardless of how long ago they served their sentence. In the US, this is used to deny voting rights to minority groups, who make up a large proportion of the prison population.
In some societies only a small minority group are allowed to participate in the democracy. In Apartheid South Africa, the minority group (European settlers) granted themselves democracy and excluded the native majority, using democracy to deprive the native population of the rights granted to European settlers. Anarchy, of course, is an absence of government; of rulers. Democracy aims for the individual to be governed, ruled, controlled by others.
Democracy requires an educated and inforned electorate. And that is what the political rhetoric and lawyers have destroyed.
Keeping everyone dependant on their shrinking wallet makes them easily led, aka Vote your pocketbook, into defunding education, libraries,etc.
The rich still can afford to pay for quality privatized versions of these things.
Only enough to understand the propaganda that they are fed. Its amazing how little higher educated people know about neurodivergence, LGBTQ+ experiences, class consciousness, indigenous cultures and lifeways.
We live in an ultra-capitalist society operating on the ableism, classism, racism and sexism that defined ancient grecian and roman politics.
you're right that people are voting against their interests, both dems and republicans
the vote with your wallet rhetoric sounds good when you realize that you have less dollars than a multinational corporation. so we've tied political and civil freedom to the ability to pay for what you think they should be? that means the rich will always win. and this vote with your wallet rhetoric is parroted by people making less than 50k/year because they think being an american libertarian is edgy
It’s crazy how you can comment something this logical and well thought out, and the next comment will be; “but if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump will be worse.”