this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
934 points (94.1% liked)
The memes of the climate
1682 readers
605 users here now
The climate of the memes of the climate!
Planet is on fire!
mod notice: do not hesitate to report abusive comments, I am not always here.
rules:
-
no slurs, be polite
-
don't give an excuse to pollute
-
no climate denial
-
and of course: no racism, no homophobia, no antisemitism, no islamophobia, no transphobia
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
So are you meaning to imply that it's racist to be vegan? Certainly like any other movement, veganism has a need for more intersectionality. And that outright nazi vegans exist is shitty. But to imply that the anomalous existence of a fringe nazi vegan community means that antispeciesism is in itself racist is completely false, and even misses the point of that very article you posted:
Emphasis added. It is important not to allow bigots to hijack otherwise important movements for justice. If that's something that matters to you, then you have even more reason to go vegan, because animal consumption is not only intrinsically racist, but it is demonstrably materially supporting the fascist institutions who are the largest threats to democracy.
https://www.christophersebastian.info/post/2018/10/20/if-veganism-is-racist-and-classist-bad-news-for-nonveganism
https://www.christophersebastian.info/post/they-want-to-take-away-your-hamburgers-animal-exploitation-and-white-nationalism
https://www.christophersebastian.info/post/2018/07/29/sorry-conservative-vegans-animal-rights-is-political-e2-80-a6and-it-leans-left
No, what are you talking about? I never said vegans are racist or fascist by default. I have nothing against veganism, so stop preaching to me.
All i said is that the concept of specieism is problematic, because it provides a link and entry point for connecting fascist ideology with veganism and there is examples of that. By eqauting the value of all animal life without any differnetiation, which is the ethical foundation of the "specieism-anti-speciiesm" ideology, you inadvertly open yourself to fascist dehumanising ideology. The framework is bound to fail by design, which is why it shouldnt be used. There is enough reasons to support veganism, without claiming dogs and man are equal.
Veganism without some kind of conceptual framework of speciesism is not veganism. Your assessment is backwards, not only is the concept of anti-speciesism not fascist; speciesism is foundational to racism, sexism, and ableism.
I disagree. While biologically humans are not qualitatively different from animals in biological terms there should be qualitatively different in ethical terms. Even if it is just on the basis of being of the same species, a pattern often found in social animal species too. The binary human-non human is necessary, as it creates a clear framework. The moment you elevate any animal to the same ethical value, by denying the concept of evaluating the value of life differently based on species, you inadvertly devalue human life.
Also it is a concept that i have only found in white western countries. Most people in the world cannot afford to think in such terms, as for them using animal products is a matter of survival. By saying it is unethical to consider human life more valueable by default, you open another attack angle, claiming those people would be "barbaric", opening up discrimination. Incidently these people actually appreciate animal life and have a deep respect for animals, treating their livestock much better than most western societies do.
From Buddhists (e.g. normal buddhist people, not Monks for whom eating meat is forbidden), over Muslims, to indigenous people in South America. Animal cruelty is fundamentely prohibited in the religious and cultural frameworks, while acknowledging the necessity to kill and eat them. When hunting or slaughtering animals it is mandated to praise the animal and remind yourself of the preciousness of it, and acknowledge the gratefulness that it deserves for nourishing you. Attacking those people as "unethical" for not thinking in terms of anti-sepcieism would get you rejected and rightfully so.
The framework of anti-specieism can only exist as a reaction to the commodification of animal life in capitalist societies. And like the greed in capitalism it is over the top and counter productive. By elevating the necessary reaction to the missdevelopment in our societies to a fundamental ethical principle that fails in the life reality outside of our societies, anti-sepcieism is not only denying those life realities, it is also supremacist in itself and an insult to the many people that are much more cultured than capitalist societies, where this supposed principle is coming from.
And just to be clear, i'm strictly against cruelty animal cruelty and cruelty in general. But this should be a given and in the aforementioned cultured societies it is, without having to equate the value of animal life to human life. (Or other animal life in biological terms) But this is quite simple to integrate in a larger cultural framework without fetishized greed like in capitalism. If you only take what you truly need and feel respect and gratitude towards what nourishes you, it becomes obvious that animal cruelty is wrong, just as destroying nature for mining, or slash burning for tobacco, palm oil and other cash crops is wrong.