According to a Wikipedia article on the incident it was the armorer that had previous experience with accidental discharges of firearms and I guess it's the mere point of their presence during filming to make sure all guns are handled safely. Their job was to hand a safe gun to the actor, they didn't do it and a person died. I don't fucking see one reason to charge the actor, regardless of whether they happen to be a producer or not, and not charge the person actually responsible for the accident.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 29 points 10 months ago (2 children)

He was the armorer’s boss, and the producer, so it was his job to make sure everything was as required. He failed his responsibilities, someone died. It’s pretty simple.

[–] RandomStickman@kbin.social 30 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It's maddening the amount of people deflecting responsibility off of him. If a workplace safety incident happened, and the boss has cultivated the lax culture against safety AND is involved with said incident, but he's not responsible? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Tbh, my first reaction was that it wasn’t fair; then I read more details as they were reported and had a moment of clarity. People get comfortable and mess up, it happens. This time, it cost someone their life.

For those worried about Alec, he has plenty of money. His ego and wallet will take a hit, but he’s not going to prison. He may or not be in a mental prison, but he can afford quality therapy, so if he is and chooses to stay there, that’s on him.

[–] RandomStickman@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I went on exactly the same path as you and I only read about it when I came across the articles casually browsing, I didn't actively seek them out.

There are people that knew more and are still defending him, which is wild.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I hear you. He can still be a decent person who made a serious mistake due to gross negligence. I’m not saying he is or isn’t decent; I like s lot of past things he said, and I hope this was a wake up call for all of us: If we’re coasting too long on good reputation/intention/feelings, we’re going to get hard reminders to actually continue working to be better than we were, yesterday.

edited

[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm basing what I say on the Wikipedia article and the two years old Legal Eagle video, but it seems it wasn't his negligence, but rather the armorer's and the assistant producer's:

According to a search warrant, the guns were briefly checked by armorer Gutierrez-Reed, before assistant director Halls took the Pietta revolver from the prop cart and handed it to Baldwin.[39][40] In a subsequent affidavit, Halls said the safety protocol regarding this firearm was such that Halls would open the loading gate of the revolver and rotate the cylinder to expose the chambers so he could inspect them himself. According to the affidavit, Halls said he did not check all cylinder chambers, but he recalled seeing three rounds in the cylinder at the time. (After the shooting, Halls said in the affidavit, Gutierrez-Reed retrieved the weapon and opened it, and Halls said that he saw four rounds which were plainly blanks, and one which could have been the remaining shell of a discharged live round.)[41] In the warrant, it is further stated that Halls announced the term "cold gun", meaning that it was empty.[39] Halls's lawyer, Lisa Torraco, later sought to assert that he did not take the gun off the cart and hand it to Baldwin as reported, but when pressed by a reporter to be clear, she refused to repeat that assertion

Btw, holy fucking shit I hate lawyers

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 0 points 10 months ago

He was the boss of all bosses. That’s the point. The buck stopped with him. Either he’s boss material or he’s not. Having money alone doesn’t give you the skill. The skill would be accepting responsibility, stop pointing fingers, accepting legal and financial consequences.

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Literally no one is worried about him as a driving force bud, if you think thats the concern or topic of discussion you should probably sit it out

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Then why are people whinging about poor Alex refusing to take his rightful responsibility, like adults and poor people are expected to do?

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Because its not actually clear who is guilty of the death, the producer who hired an incompetent firearm safety coordinator or the incompetent firearm safety coordinator.

Fucking obviously, you child.

If being called a child over acting childish about a human being dying is too much for you, I again suggest you sit this conversation out and let the adults continue it.

Or keep spamming my inbox with deleted comments.

[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Perhaps because Baldwin, as far as we know, did everything correctly? He had the armorer prepare the gun and assistant producer check it. The armorer failed to do it correctly and the assistant producer failed at their part of the job. They are guilty of the accident, because they did not follow the procedure required, not the person who gave them the task

[–] RandomStickman@kbin.social 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No one is absolving responsibility from the armourer.

But if I'm the boss of a warehouse, never enforce any OSHA safety standards against my staff, and one of them just signed off that they inspected the forklift that day without actually doing so, and I drove the forklift and killed someone because of the forklift's malfunction, I am, as the boss, partly responsible for the incident.

To say otherwise is flying against rules and regulations written in blood, as we can clearly see.

[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How does this even apply to the situation?

[–] RandomStickman@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Baldwin is one of the producer (boss), who did not enforce any safety standards (allowed crews to bring live ammo to the set, allowed armourer to be subpar), and ended up with one of his staff dead.

If you don't know how my analogy applies to the situation you clearly don't know enough about it to form an informed opinion.

ALL workplace safety standards should be the responsibility of the boss in some capacity. That's how safety standards are maintained. If the boss is allowed to shrug it off saying "it's not my fault the staff is an idiot" that's how we end up with new hires dying on the line. If you can't understand that I could only hope you aren't in charge of anyone's safety.

[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info -1 points 10 months ago

who did not enforce any safety standards (allowed crews to bring live ammo to the set, allowed armourer to be subpar), and ended up with one of his staff dead.

And you're basing these two claims on?

[–] fidodo@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's not that simple because there were a lot of producers and we don't know what his involvement in her hiring was. A producer can do anything from practically everything to literally nothing.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago

Lol! He was also the actor handling the weapon! We aren’t privy to grand jury evidence, so we’ll have to wait and see. I found this, for anyone interested. https://apnews.com/article/what-to-know-alec-baldwin-grand-jury-60eaa895deee6e762281d575bc4f75b3

Pity he didn’t insist on everyone being safe. I’m still musing the fact that live ammunition was even where it could possibly have been confused with blanks; I’m wondering if anyone has hired a PI to investigate Ms. Guiterrez and other cast and crew who may have had any grudges or other hm, conditions, that may have led to such an unfortunate accident. Or Baldwin himself. I’m not sure about LE investigating every angle, at all. In 2021, Baldwin had a net worth of ~$61 mn.

I looked and found this article, as well: https://www.distractify.com/p/alec-baldwin-net-worth. I would hope Mr. Baldwin has competent counsel and a competent PI. Nonetheless, he’s been charged, and I do understand the charges. All we can do is send best wishes, and see how it plays out in court. I’m sure any fan mail support that’s not inauthentic expressing solidarity and support would be appropriate and appreciated.

As an aside, seven kids. My heart goes out to his family.

[–] fidodo@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think it would be fair to charge him with reckless endangerment if he was involved with her hiring and there were clear red flags, but producers have extremely varied roles and I don't know what his personal involvement was.

[–] synae@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Clear red flags, you say? https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

[–] fidodo@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I agree the set was a mess and whoever was in charge of that side should definitely be charged for endangerment. I don't know if the most responsible person was Baldwin though, because there were a lot of producers involved and being labeled a producer doesn't mean you actually do anything. It's possible that he had more involvement, but I don't want to make that assumption based on the title of producer alone.

I do think he should have used his influence to do more to make the set safe, no matter what his responsibilities were, and that he was irresponsible in that regard no matter what, but not doing enough isn't necessarily criminal if he wasn't the directly responsible individual.

I meant red flags before she was hired, but she should have been fired immediately after these things happened, I agree.